___WEDNESDAY___CH 4___UPDATE___"CHILD GENIUS"___UPDATE___CH 4___

[RTKangaMummy]

WEDNESDAY

CHANNEL 4

AN UPDATE ON THE CHILDREN FROM LAST YEAR

x x x

Documentary
Child Genius Wednesday 16 April
9:00pm - 10:00pm
Channel 4
1/2
The subtitle of this series about megabrained children is "young and gifted", but by the end you half-wonder if it should be "young and cursed". We're catching up with kids we met in the last series - chess champ Peter (11), who wears a "genius in training" T-shirt, Adam (eight), who dissects rats in the kitchen, and Mikhail (five), who as Britain's youngest Mensa member has appeared on Oprah and Countdown. We also meet Georgia, who toppled Mikhail as Britain's youngest Mensa member. At two, she was measured with an IQ of 152 - impressive given that, being a toddler, she fell asleep halfway through the test. Her mother notes that "a lot of the pictures we take of Georgia have this white light around her . . ." That's the thing: inevitably, parents become caught up in making their gifted children into mini-celebrities, especially when TV crews get involved. It makes for fascinating TV; whether it's great for the pressure-cooker kids is another matter.

x x x

The programme said more aboutthe parents than the kids: being super-smart doesn't make you nice. Who in their right mind would allow children who seemed quite socially mal-adjusted to be put on display like this?

I thought each child unpleasant, albeit in different ways. And as for the mother being a don: it's not a licence to produce a child who cannot carry out simple social conversation demonstrating human empathy with others... my husband's an academic and it really is not a licence for creating obnoxious kids!

I believe in academic excellence/ achieving your potential and don't think all teenage boys should be interested in eg football but they should also be able to relate to their peers. Being a clever 13 year old is not an excuse to be rude/ patronising.

And another thing: turning a child into a performing monkey looking at alliteration in anglo-saxon doesn't actually mean they comprehend what they are reading. Literature is about the way emotion and ideas are expressed and transposing the reader to another time/ place/ life. if you have no experience of life, you can't understand what's being expressed so you need to understand some of life. This is why children's literature is more suitable for children: the writer is portraying something the child can relate to. Think back on books/ poems you loved as a child/ teenager and revisit them as an adult.

Dante and Aimee were unbelievably rude and should not have been allowed get away with it. Full stop. I don't care how clever/ teenager-ey you are, basic manners need to be observed to show respect for other people who are also human beings.

This series made me so annoyed (but I did watch it)

Aimee was being a typical 13 yr old girl imo. If you filmed selected highlights from our family you would have seen dd1 also say similar things. What you don't see is the whole picture of a child with hormone raging who deliberately provokes and then feels horribly guilty for it.

Also, she looked permanently tired & who isn't snappy when tired?

When are Dante's parents going to realise that being very clever doesn't excuse bad manners? I know gifted children can have problems socialising. I also know (I have one) that they can come across as very arrogant, particularly when young, as they can't understand why something they find so easy is difficult to others. This is something the parents need to help the children with ime.

I'm wondering if the programme focused more on the parents was because of who Dante is related to and who Michael's mother is at Oxford.

They all certainly needed a few lessons in manners though. Even the most gifted adult wouldn't have spoken like those kids did. I understand that they having trouble interacting but basic manners will get you further than arrogance and rudeness.

I agree the Aimee looked really tired and didn't really seem to get a buzz from the music any more which is a shame

My three DDs are, theoretically, "gifted (reading ages of 12 at 6, that kind of thing). However, they need to fit in with other people/ kids, emotional intelligence just as important as IQ to succeed in life. A basic pre-requisite is empathy: understanding other people and their feelings. They have all had difficulties in school as a result of their "differentness" but they have to understand where the other kids are coming from. DD3 (aged 8) is writing a book about Ancient Egypt but the other kids in her class are more interested in Match Attack cards. She has to understan that their choices are valid. Unlike the parents last night, we won't be pushing for publication. But this is not to say we don't help/ encourage her eg DH has made medieval ink with them with soot and egg yolk (messy!) But there's no point pretending that her contemporaries won't find this a bit too different and feel threatened so she has to understand where they are coming from too.

IMHO life is a long game and contentedness with yourself is crucial to fulfilment. If you cannot fit in with others you will always have insecurities. These kids and their parents need to understand the difference between arrogance and self-confidence.

"Gifted" children are normally just precocious and to give them a sense of having "super powers" is setting them up for a later life of disappointment. An 8 year old child with an intellectual age of 20 will still have an emotional age of 8 and should be treated as such. Of course there are prodigious talents out there but at the end of the day our kids are what we make them and, in my case, I hope I'll end up with 3 polite, considerate DCs who achieve academically. DH (with PhD) is genuinely kind and thoughtful ... it doesn't have to be either/ or!

KM I really think you should watch both programmes all the way thru before judging others on what they saw

KM Have you watched CHINESE SCHOOL

One of the girls on that has got the highest score above half a million other university students

BUT she is polite and a lovely girl and she is deffo the same ability as Dante and Michael and Aimmee so being mega gifted with 170 IQ does not mean you have to be rude

KM please watch this

Hi, don't want to close down all discussion but I'm Michael's mum, and I just want to put a few factual mistakes straight.

First, Hermione isn't pressured to write. She likes writing. We're a very bookish family. And secondly she likes writing alone, though I've often offered to type (as with Corydon). She and Michael are different - NOT in terms of ability, but as people.

Thirdly, maybe those who see Michael as socially a problem didn't catch the end, where he had his friends round, a commonplace occurrence? The programme also left out his birthday tea party, with (as it happens) a fairly different group of kids. He actually makes friends fairly easily, though of couse not everyone likes him. Not everyone likes me either

Fourthly, he does actually understand human feelings pretty well; some g andf t kids are wise as well as bright. Finally, I can't see that Michael was rude to anyone except his sister, for which he's been ticked off many times - he does tend to interrupt, a running sore. My bet is that this has zip to do with being g and t - kids will be kids.

Am not saying this in an offended tone. Just that we made the thing to try to raise awareness of the pleasures and problems facing profoundly gifted kids. This will only work if people actually see the problems as they are. So now I've made some minor corrections (puts on donnish look) I'll leave y'all to make fierce judgements. I fully accept that being on tv means being shot at.

Hi Jane

Welcome to MN

When we wanted the G&T part of the site set up it was because of all the misunderstandings we had on other parts of MN

I always feel cross when G&T children are seen as odd and from pushy parents BUT that if your DS was a future David Beckham you would be expected to let them follow their interests and to push them to play for teams etc.

Hi JaneLumley.
I am pleased that you have tried to raise awareness of the problems that gifted children face. It can be very isolating, for the child and their parent. In doing a tv programme the programme makers have the advantage of editing though and sometimes families are not portrayed in a good light, which can make a family or a condition misunderstood as to tell the truth does not often make good television viewing. Such shows open themselves up to alot of criticism from people because we are only shown one side so it is very easy to make assumptions.
From the programme it is easy to see that your son has the support that he needs, not all of our children have access to people that are willing to talk to them about ancient scripts etc so, without meaning to be harsh, your child has an advantage over other gifted children who's parents can not find this type of support. This can make parents envious when this difference is broadcast on TV. Raising a child, any child, is a difficult job. I think raising a gifted or special needs is twice as difficult. All of the families on the programme were supportive of their children, it concerns me that the programme did not including the children who are from one parent families or families that had very little knowledge of how to help their child or are unable to access any type of support.

My son used to interupt, he's very bright and I spend alot of my time trying to support him and guide him so that he can fit in with others because he's not very well understood. He has the thoughts, ideas and intelligence of a child alot older then he is but the maturity of a child his own age. People listen to him talk, sometimes they give him funny looks as if to say that he's odd, sometimes they don't. It makes me constantly aware that he doesn't fit in.

Hi Jane,

I'm interested to know how you deal with explaining to an intellectually mature but emotionally "normal" child how to deal with "differentness". I have no desire to restrict my child's intellectual curiosity but nor do I want her to think she's a "better" person than another child who is not as bright as she is.

I take your point about the programme not showing "normal" activities eg birthday tea party but I did hear your remark about him going to school and learning from his peers which is the point I tried to make above.

As most people will have realised once they've attended a few university/ school reunions, those who get along better in life (ie are "whole"/ balanced people) are not necessarily those who seemed super smart with starred firsts at the age of 21. I've been struck at my reunions how the nice but not desperately smart guys have ended up doing so well later in life and, in particular, ponder the fact that these are pretty much always men: the women who are "successful" are the ones who seemed driven from the get go while the driven men seem to come unstuck at some stage.

And G&T kids are "odd": by definition they are exceptional in a certain area and so different. I have no DSs and DDs spectacularly unsporting and have suffered because school so keen to keep sporty ones on the straight and narrow that they get praised for small things while academic ones are just doing what they're in school to do anyway. However, I would think it peculiar if a great 10 year old footballer was pushed at football to the exclusion of all else: imho life is about all elements/ facets and you ignore this at your peril. Single minded application to just one thing from a very early age cannot be a good idea for the vast majority of children. Paul Gascoigne springs to mind as what happens if you push just one aspect... or sarah lawrence if you push another... or whatever that girl was called who married Bill Wyman if you push another.

Real genius needs inordinate application but is no guarantee of a fulfilled life and frequently of a very troubled one.

I was unsure what word to use to descirbe our children when I said "ODD"

When we asked MN to put a specail part for G&T it was becasue we were always told off on other threads for boasting about our DD/DSs and what they were doing and others saw them as ODD

My DS was seen by the children at primary school as weird but he was accepted by the children as "oh that is ** he is just like that" and his friends could see past the weirdness and so he was ok cos they had grown up together since age of 4

BUt when he went to senior school it was differnet for him to meet a whole group of other children who hadn't grown up with him

And now he is in year 8 he has some good new friends

How has Michael settled into senior school?

Is he year 8 too or is he advanced into older age group?

Do you know as I watching this(in between my DH talking to me ) I kept thinking "umm she could be a MNetter". Even Dh when he finalised realise I want listening to him and his sporting waffle say "I bet they dont drink fruit shoots" Who says you cant teach an old dog new tricks?

I commented before it kicked off on here that I thought the film makers tried to portrayed Hermione I dont know if they did this intentionally or if I just mis-read it. (love her name BTW) I also thought it was grossly unfair to spring the book reading on him without notice. He looked unconfortable and I really felt sorry for him. I wouldn't have wanted to do it and lets face it he could have thrown a teenage strop but credit to him for doing it.

It was nice to see michael mixing with others which was something we didnt really see the other children (Dante and Aimee) do. Your son is the same age as my DD and would agree with you totally (without wishing to sound like a total creep!) about him being rude to his sister, its a constant bug bear in this house too! Its a sibling/teen/growing up thing IMHO.

Hope you are able to let us know how he is settling in at school.

Hmmm, I liked michael, I was so glad he was going to a school where he'll be pushed, but also allowed to mature socially. He's always going to be clever, it would be a lot harder to go racing through university and then 'grow up' as it were.
And FWIW I thought the program looked edited to make it seem like no-one in Michael's family noticed Hermione. She is obviously pretty sharp herself.
Personally I couldn't stand Dante, he seemed to think his intelligence gave him a license to be pain. It doesn't. I hope the programme was edited to show him in this way but really at 13 why wasn't he on 'best behaviour' for the cameras? My dd is a year or so older and as she said even if he is like that normally why wouldn't he try to seem 'nice' for the cameras?
Agree he didn't seem to be a very happy little boy and I think his parents seemed to forget that while maybe he is much cleverer than them and he does want to be treated as an adult he also is just a child who needs as much discipline, cuddles and boundaries as the next child.
Aimee was clearly very bright but I just wanted her to go to the cinema with a group of friends.
Reckon the Grafton Clarkes realised that their kids just weren't in the same league...

I really liked Dante, he reminds me of my brother when he was that age, he was very smart too but didnt know where to direct any of it, he seems a little unhappy tbh, like he wishes he didnt have a high iq, i thought he was really sweet.

I wonder if you're still following this thread Jane? I am struggling with something that maybe you would be able to help with - I quite understand if you don't want to get into a personal dialogue on MN but it's worth a try from my point of view as you may have helpful insight.
My issue is that one of the mums on child genius is a close friend of mine, we're godparents to each others children, I value her friendship very highly and feel as though we're in it for the long haul in terms of our friendship. I am also a psychologist and have a professional as well as personal view on the whole G&T/assessment/special schooling issue. However, I have grave misgivings about the whole assessment process for G&T (espec in young children) and in particular the making of the documentary. It has caused a rift in our friendship - on my part, not hers. I can't stop thinking of all the negative implications of being in the documentary from her child's point of view. I have followed this thread and felt so upset that people have criticised my friend. She is such a warm, loving person and mother and loves all children, not just her own, so the criticism seems so unjust, but completely understandable when what people see is little 'snapshots' and those little snapshots do indeed seem to show a slightly crazy person - which she's not, not entirely anyhow!
The question I have - and this might help me to understand why she went down this route - therefore have more empathy and try to heal the rift - is why, when you know your child is bright, maybe even gifted, why would you draw attention to that fact and place their face/IQ etc in the public domain when they already have so much additional stuff to contend with? Surely you just make their life harder, because as well as coping with their 'gift' and being different, they now have to cope with being minor celebrity and have people judge them and their families based on snippets of their lives. Why would you do that?
You seem psychologically robust enough Jane to not take this as criticism, rather I have a genuine wish to understand,
Thanks

I am totally facinated by this prgramme and I love each and every child on it for different reasons.

I agree the teenagers appear rude, BUT they are teenagers.

DANTE is very odd in some ways becuase he cannot comunicate with others on his level and hedoesn't do well wth authority, However he has used his intelligence to rationalsie it. I think he would do really well in a school like SUMMERHILL. DI any of you see that programme about the school that allows the children to go to lessons if they please and to work together as a community. He would then possibly CHOOSE to learn as he would not be spending all that time battling against authoruity.

MICHAEL is a fantastic littl eprig - but I mean that in a postive way. He is hilarious (more so last time with his food commentry) but also really knowing. JANE you should be so proud, he really reminded me of some people I knew at his age, when I was a teenage. I remember yhe feeling of knowing it all, but some of his depth stunned me. I found him rather in that transistion boy to man stage that is at once sweet, but also strange. LOVE HIM

AIMEE I felt most sorry for as she is a perfectionist with hovering, overbearing parents. HER MUM DOES HER HAIR FFS!!! I see bits of my DD in her in that she HATES to get anything wrong and has to be number 1. SHe finds it hard not to be. Yes she was stroppy and rude, but she ws a hormonal teenager.

The younger kids were interesting in different ways, but I most loved the teens