Strictly Come Dancing '24 Thread 1 : Who will be our celebs and Pros?

[EineReiseDurchDieZeit]

Starting a new SCD thread for chat prior to the series as the last is about to fill.

These threads are usually helmed by @PolkadotsAndMoonbeams and I normally deputise, but I haven't seen her around in a while

This thread will discuss who has been chosen for the show, but not who has been paired with who as that's a spoiler for the first show.

This is a NO SPOILER thread

Get Ready To KEEP DANCING.

Kim Marsh got to the quarter-finals, I think, with Graziano? So he hasn't always had poor dancers.

<waves>

Hello all! I've been having a busy year so not around so much. Finally took myself off on a lovely relaxing holiday and got back to find Strictly imploding so thought I'd better come and see what the glitterball gang were all saying!

Thank you for starting the new thread. Will have a read with a and come back and comment.

I remember us saying that having a Paralympian with a condition that affected his bones and joints jumping on and off a table was a stupid idea at the time.

OH YAY You're here, I thought you weren't coming back! Great to see you !

I HRTWT but Steve Backshall is now saying he made a complaint at the time against Ola for bullying.
Is it just the case that celebrities don't like being told what to do? I'm not seeing any sports stars making complaints, maybe they are more used to disciplined training. Just a thought.

The Steve Backshall and Ola thing, he complained at the time and it was known

What's happening in terms of revelations is quite a lot, but that's one of those incidents that's getting brought back up to further prove a point as @ReadyTeddy1000 said better than me earlier

Maybe sportspeople are better at known their own capacity, and saying no when pushed beyond it.

I’d expect a sports person to have a damn good idea where the line is.

Actors and DJs who have done yoga and disco dancing, not so much.

I remember Steve Backshall got a lot of stick at the time because he's massive and Ola is tiny. People were wilfully misunderstanding that you don't have to feel physically intimidated by someone in order for them to make you feel belittled and miserable. I think there was a lot of talk at the time that Ola had wanted to be partnered with Mark Wright because he was guaranteed to get her in the tabloids.

One thing that I don't think the BBC took into account when they changed their recruitment system for the pros, is that on the competitive ballroom circuit, most amateurs don't really teach a huge amount — that's part of the rules being an amateur dancer, you can only teach under supervision of a professional.

Before series 8, I think all the pros were ballroom professionals. Most of the pro recruits after series 8 went from being good amateurs into performances dancers (stage shows etc) to Strictly. Strictly is quite possibly the first time they've taught a single adult one-to-one. Most ballroom teaching is group classes or couples. It isn't like they've done the professional teaching exams and/or have lots of teaching experience.

Will Bailey is a sports person and he has complained.

That makes sense in theory, but I'm not convinced that James, Brendan, Darren, Anton and Ola - all ballroom professionals - were shining examples of good practice. I suspect they got away with more "robust" methods because it was ten to twenty years ago.

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams that does seem like a good perspective.

I think the problem is that there seems to be no nuance or scope for interpretations in the reporting.

I've seen so much bad comments about Gio allegedly saying "that mad woman" without naming her, yet nothing about her going to the press and saying "he was abusive, cruel and mean". Quite frankly both need to shut up until the enquiry is concluded.

I think the can of worms is well and truly opened now, but I also think that a lot of people are going to be negatively effected whether they've done anything or not.

The two stories widely reported that the time that haven't yet been rehashed at Amy vs DJJ and Katya vs Tony Adams. I believe there was also something about Oti threatening to twist Danny Macs nipples if he got a step wrong or something.

I can’t comment on all of them, but certainly Darren (parents own a dance school and he’s well versed in teaching methods) and Anton (my old dance teacher used him to teach kids summer schools before Strictly and says he’s great with them) we’re experienced teachers.

I’m inclined to agree with @PolkadotsAndMoonbeams that when they moved towards more West End performers and less pro Ballroom competitors was when things started going a bit pear shaped. Whether it was a conscious thing (more “exciting” choreography and perhaps cost less) or whether professional ballroom folk were starting to be less interested and it was harder to recruit enough of them, I don’t know. Don’t forget when SCD started there was a huge amount of snobbery in the dance world about it mixed with fears that it could really damage the reputation of the sport by being portrayed as naff and a bit of a joke.

I was sad about Will’s withdrawal. He was one of my choices to reach the late stages along with Chris Ramsey and Karim (the latter because Amy’s my favourite pro). It did seem foolhardy at the time, that leap.

I think that along with backstage pastoral improvement and three year contracts for pros, they need to avoid hiring actual dancers like Leyton as the celeb. It puts undue pressure on the other partnerships to meet that impenetrable standard. I’ve found ringers mildly annoying in the past but now I actually think they’re a real blight.

4 x 10 should be vanishingly rare, and shouldn’t appear before Halloween.

Perhaps I was unfair to mention Darren; Having checked back Linda hated him just because she wanted someone who was more fun, not because he was mean to her.

Anton's more serious issue wasn't due to lack of teaching experience..

That's interesting, thanks for posting that.
... fears that it could really damage the reputation of the sport by being portrayed as naff and a bit of a joke
Do those dancers regard what they do as a sport?

Clearly it's physically very demanding, but I wonder whether viewing it as a sport (as opposed to an art form) makes a difference to where the 'abusive' benchmark is.

You can get a Blue in dancesport. Who knew?
www.oudancesport.co.uk/blues_criteria/#

I agree with @TennisWithDeborah

I think that along with backstage pastoral improvement and three year contracts for pros, they need to avoid hiring actual dancers like Leyton as the celeb. It puts undue pressure on the other partnerships to meet that impenetrable standard. I’ve found ringers mildly annoying in the past but now I actually think they’re a real blight.

I know the issue of ringers has been debated until the end of time. But I personally think if that celeb has got the credentials that are strong enough to be a pro (i.e. Layton, Ashley Roberts), then they shouldn't be competing. They should be added to the pro rosta in the same way that Jowita was.

I agree, Layton's expertise and capabilities meant that Vito had to push Ellie even further than needed. That lift that nearly went wrong could have bloody killed her.

<sticks hand up>

I did!

I danced on the university circuit for years. Oxford and Cambridge always had an extra incentive to do well at the national university competition because their blues depended on it.

Do those dancers regard what they do as a sport?

Probably, yes, but they might vary to what extent.

Competitive ballroom is usually called "Dancesport". There are two main bodies who govern it — WDC and WDSF. WDC leans more towards it being art (but a physical competitive one), but WDSF want it to be an Olympic sport. WDSF have been developing a more extreme athletic style over the last twenty or so years.

(On the university circuit it's about half and half whether a university has it as part of their sports union or their societies.)

they need to avoid hiring actual dancers like Leyton as the celeb. It puts undue pressure on the other partnerships to meet that impenetrable standard. I’ve found ringers mildly annoying in the past but now I actually think they’re a real blight.

agree, Layton's expertise and capabilities meant that Vito had to push Ellie even further than needed. That lift that nearly went wrong could have bloody killed her.

I agree with this.

The other thing that really annoys me about some ringers is that they don't even dance the technique that well! Footwork, hip action, hold can all be worse than "novices" but because their timing and musicality is good and they can easily learn complicated side-by-side patterns or do good spins and perform well they get marked highly for things they can already do and maybe lose one or two marks for technique.

Whereas other people can work really hard and get all their footwork right but they'll lose a lot of marks on overall performance if it isn't something they're used to doing.

Obviously it can't be a completely level playing field going in, but if you have a tick list of ten things you mark against, you shouldn't really have people who excel in eight of those before they've had their first training session.

The other thing about ringers is the lack of care from production.

the trolling that Layton got last year was obscene. But the producers KNEW that would be the reaction. Add in the same sex partnership and being a Black man it was like they were setting him up somewhat. I do think that strictly have a duty of care to actively say to people on social media to pack it in. Not just sit back and say “this is out of our control”

Yes

Layton certainly didn't take feedback well and wanted to add his own interpretation to everything instead of sticking to the remit of that weeks dance

Sorry I was replying to Polka not Pasta

I agree that Layton shouldn't have been trolled of course

Layton, bless him, came in with his eyes way open, he knew full well that he was going to get huge amounts of online hate and he judged that it was worth it. He shouldn't have had to, but I'm sure he still thinks it was worth it. After all he got a lot of love as well and he stormed the tour. Better that perhaps than Ashley Roberts who got less hate but also zero love?

But his uber-ringer status gave a fig leaf for people who just wanted an excuse to have a go. Was it OK for the producers to put him in that position? Even if it was his choice? Could they have done more?

Layton was really impressive on the live tour. I wasn’t a fan of his during the series but he was pretty mesmerising and noticeably better than the rest when watching live even from the heavens of an arena.

What’s the likelihood of Strictly taking a year off to let the investigation conclude (as allegations seem to be mounting - the Will Bailey stuff today really doesn’t look good at all) and let the dust settle? I’m sure it would give the schedulers an enormous headache but it all feels a bit sullied this year already and it’s not even started :(