Anyone else notice how censored and restrictive of free speech everything is?

[ThinkingMother]

I had posted a thread here before criticising the eurovision song contest for being inappropriate on various levels this year. As predicted, the loud woke crowd got it censored and removed. Is anyone else concerned that people who make up the majority of our entire world are being silenced by those in the minority? I don't want to silence the wokists, I'm interested to debate and hear their views. clearly they don't feel able to defend them.

This is precisely why I don't watch television any more.

I don't think it is the minority though - TV companies, mumsnet etc. all want to cater to the masses. If everyone is disagreeing with you, perhaps you are in the minority?

What do you count as ‘wokists’? People who object to sexism, racism, homophobia and other vile prejudices which blight people’s lives? Because those people, who are the ones in the right, by the way, can be found on all parts of the political spectrum.

I didn’t see your thread, but I do recognise this kind of ‘you can’t say anything these days’ post as something which usually relates to someone saying something which any right thinking person (and often the law, too) would find unacceptable.

I liked that brief period before 2016 when we seemed to be in a period where the vast majority of people had moved on from horrible 1970s style prejudices to a place where everyone in society seemed to be more or less respected. Sadly, we seem to have moved backwards, to a place where, because people’s lives are hard, it’s fine to seethe and hate against anything ‘different’ again, fuelling the agenda of people who want to create divisions in society for whatever reason. More tolerance of difference, more open mindedness and less talk about ‘woke’ and would make this society a happier place to be.

People not having a voice who want to spread judgement and anger is the issue here. If your voices were helping, contributing, creating a nicer society for all it would be welcomed. Peddling hate, aggression and anger is something no community enjoys or wants to encourage.

Please give us some examples of what is being censored and what it is that you want to say that we are not allowed to say any more.

How do you define what is nice? helping? contributing? creating a nicer society? Because maybe tomorrow, someone comes along with a completely different view to you, and you won't be able to give your opinions anymore. This isn't about who is right or wrong, it's about having the freedom to discuss it, it's about not having to self censor. Obviously, there are some things that are clearly unacceptable to all, such as calling for a mass genocide. But if I want to have a moment where I question what was blasted across europe on a family show, and that i might want to object to seeing someone perform fellatio on a microphone while I'm watching with my children, why on earth are we not able to say that? The vast majority of people agreed with what I posted by the way. All those voices shut down and silenced. These are scary times we are in.

I'd love to, but if I do that it'll just be censored again. so here i am...self-censoring.

I question what was blasted across europe on a family show, and that i might want to object to seeing someone perform fellatio on a microphone while I'm watching with my children, why on earth are we not able to say that?

I find it hard to believe MNHQ deleted a thread simply because you said Eurovision was shit this year.

I agree with you on overly sexualised content.

I think if the tone ventured into sexuality and clothing there would be an issue as these themselves are not doing "harm".

Yes, most of the TV I watch these days are either old re-runs of classics from the 80s and 90s or American series. I even prefer watching foreign news channels rather than the BBC (i.e. Al Jazera, CNN etc.) as you get a better balanced picture.

I think there is a feeling that you cannot express certain views. I believe that in general there is too much sexualisation in events just be radical when really it's not needed.

I commented on the thread referred to, and some did object to the OPs wording because it seemed to be not just about Eurovision being highly sexualised but an implied criticism of some sexualities.

When last on the thread it had become a much broader discussion about Eurovision itself and how it had changed over the years, but also about how queer culture has estranged many lesbians and gays by making it appear that all same sex attracted people are into fetish gear, and other "unusual" appearances.

At the time I stopped posting (late at night not upset by thread which was interesting on many levels) a few posters had turned up (again) with what seemed to be wanting to make personal criticisms of OPs language.

When I saw the thread had been deleted I just assumed it had all go too personal and a slanging match.

Which was a shame as the thread had covered many aspects of eurovision, watching tv as a family, queer politics, why is the UK entry always so bad, and so on.

So not sure that the assertions that thread was deleted to stop "free speech" is correct.

Best to contact @MNHQ and ask them, because it is much better that we all know / understand what they think the limits are.

I question what was blasted across europe on a family show, and that i might want to object to seeing someone perform fellatio on a microphone while I'm watching with my children, why on earth are we not able to say that?

OP, there is no way MN would have be deleted a thread with comments like that. There must have been other things you said, perhaps homophobic?

Are you sure you are interested in the truth though? It seems to me you are simply glad of an excuse to rant about ‘wokery’

I’d be really interested in some real and truthful examples of people not being ‘allowed’ to say things. Not people saying hateful things and being asked to stop. That’s not the same at all.

Was it you who posted all the extremist stuff about how you were outraged at Israel entering the Eurovision and their song being about a massacre? Not that surprising it got pulled. I do believe in free speech but it is concerning that so many people have extremist views.

The people who shout the loudest on mn are generally those who don’t give an alternative argument to explain that perhaps someone was doing something different to what the op thought- they’re the ones saying they’re opinion is completely right. They generally add some curses, maybe some acronyms and shout people down. This generally leads to a thread being pulled because it’s just one big clash. There’s got to be a better way of communicating

Their!

I made it very very clear (including in the op) that I am not anti anything, "all people should live their best lives" were my exact words. What I personally found unacceptable was how so many acts on a family show that's being broadcast across a huge section of the world encompassing several religious and cultural values that we should at least try to be respectful of had been reduced to "circus freak" spectacles with regards to the choreography, clothing, lyrics etc. Unless something was written that encourages harming someone else (which it wasn't!) then it cannot justifiably be removed. It is suppression of free speech. It is censorship.

No, it wasn't me. That said, it's baffling to me that Israel is there when Russia isn't. Either both or neither should be.

I don't feel censored. I can say anything I want.

What do you want to say that can't be said?

Put a poster in your window if you feel MN won't host your comments.

made it very very clear (including in the op) that I am not anti anything, "all people should live their best lives" were my exact words. What I personally found unacceptable was how so many acts on a family show that's being broadcast across a huge section of the world encompassing several religious and cultural values that we should at least try to be respectful of had been reduced to "circus freak" spectacles with regards to the choreography, clothing, lyrics etc. Unless something was written that encourages harming someone else (which it wasn't!) then it cannot justifiably be removed. It is suppression of free speech. It is censorship

OP. There is no way that MN would have deleted the thread if that is all you said. You are either misrepresenting what you wrote, or someone else posted something offensive.

OP. There is no way that MN would have deleted the thread if that is all you said. You are either misrepresenting what you wrote, or someone else posted something offensive.

As I posted up thread, I doubt the thread was deleted for OP's comment.

But as the evening wore on posts did get a bit personal and suspect this is why the thread was deleted.

But also as I said up thread, it is pointless having this discussion as only @MNHQ will know why they deleted it, so ask them.

Then we can discuss what they said are the reason.

All these posts are pointless as we dont know why the thread was deleted.

Sorry OP, but I very much doubt you have been picked on. Just ask @MNHQ rather than waste time on pure speculation.

I’m not sure the OP wants to establish the real reason why the thread was deleted. I think she enjoys ranting about woke and censorship.

Can you please clarify OP, are you against censorship or for it?

You seem to want to be able to speak your mind without censure, but want to censor the content of Eurovision.

I didn't see the deleted thread but there is another on chat with Olly Alexander's name in the title that has been very critical of the overtly sexualised performance. It wasn't removed, so there must have been something that crossed the line in your thread. I agree though, censoring open discussion on an adult chat forum is not the same thing as censoring a performance when someone is representing a country on a show watched by millions of families.