Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

Yes! Thank you for putting it all together like that. You are absolutely right, there is so much wedding imagery in those scenes. It's a stunning sequence.

As an aside - something I only realised recently about all the wedding foreshadowing. In the mermaid sequence when Stede is crying over Ed, it's Ed's wedding ring finger that starts twitching first. It's only in the second shot of Ed's hand that the rest of his fingers move.

The other thing you mentioned - that this wasn't a whim. They both say they are whim prone, but they really aren't. 'Whim' implies a lack of thought, impulsive, carefree. But this isn't them. Most of the time their actions and choices are either carefully planned, forced, or a result of their trauma. The only things I can think of atm that are actually 'whim's' are their agreement to teach each other about their worlds in the first place, and the China idea (as opposed to picking somewhere not so far away).

Gosh I didn’t read that scene like a marriage at all! I’ve just watched it again, the bit where Stede says we’ll ‘need a copy of this’ just makes me think of a couple making a big domestic purchase.
I’m probably not thinking deeply enough for this thread however!

I think the joke is just another Stede fish out of water thing. He's middle class and educated, of course he's going to read the Ts and Cs carefully and has an expectation of being able to negotiate terms because of his privileged upbringing.

It's like running joke that he went to the same school as all the English Naval commanders.

But they were both discussing the small print and it was all so comfortable and domestic. There wasn’t much threat in that particular scene.

Anyway it has made me laugh a lot today!

when Stede is crying over Ed, it's Ed's wedding ring finger that starts twitching first.

Yep, I only made the connection last week. I think there’s a little more too. During the first season, Stede wears a light green ring and Ed a red ruby ring. This establishes their colour schemes. Stede is all whites and pastels and Ed’s reds, purples and blacks. Ed no longer has his rings at the military academy whilst Stede appears to keep his.

In season two, Ed wears a darker emerald ring on his wedding finger which is an anomalous colour for him. He has got rid of everything of Stede’s except the lighthouse picture, the toy boat (it’s still in the cabinet) and Stede’s black cravat which he has now pulled tightly about his throat (symbolism!). The green ring doesn’t have an explanation, but it has to be Stede’s (a different green ring). It’s something else Ed doesn’t throw out. Green is one of Stede’s repeating colours in the pirate magical realist world and Ed wears the ring on his wedding finger. When we hear the knocking sound as Ed tries to wake, it is the green ring on his wedding finger banging against the wood; the heart-line finger, desperately trying to help him to live again.

There are so many layers to this show and you can enjoy it in so many ways. It's just lovely to be able to chat here with other people love it as much as I do! I'm still seeing new things and I lost count a long time ago as to how many times I've watched each episode.

For Ed though, this wasn’t a ‘whim’, it was a marriage in every way but in name.
Yes. As he said to Stede in S2, he was "all in".

I've just sat and watched the whole of Act of Grace again. It's wonderful. I like how Ed doesn't speak to Izzy at all - barely looks at him, just punches him. And although CJ had been clear that Izzy had given only Stede up, Ed tells Stede that Izzy gave 'us' up. Ed was clearly seeing them as a couple and he was standing by his love. The other thing I enjoyed today was Wellington's little smile to Hornberry, right after Lucius had finished reading from the journal - "he's a real pirate" (parallel with pinnochio's "he's a real boy", but that's a whole other post!). I thought Hornberry had a soft spot for Stede, but Wellington's brief smile looked genuine. It was nice to think he was also happy with the way things turned out, and not just because it meant they caught Blackbeard.

In season two, Ed wears a darker emerald ring on his wedding finger which is an anomalous colour for him.
Yes I think I've mentioned that one before. I figured it had to be Stede's and a few weeks ago I looked back through S1 trying to see if Stede had ever actually worn it but didn't spot it anywhere.

I also had to sit and watch The Inkeeper, because I hadn't noticed it was the ring that was knocking against the wood when Ed came round and wanted a look. That too required the whole episode, naturally! My current rewatch is not quite going to plan 😁

@TriceratopsRocks I hadn't noticed it was the ring that was knocking against the wood

I was awake, naturally, thinking about this at 2am 😜. Traditionally, the Vena Amoris was thought to run from the left ring finger to the heart. So when, as you said, that finger begins to twitch first it’s as if Stede’s voice has begun to cause a sort of resuscitation. Ed’s ring finger is trying to pump his heart again, both literally and metaphorically, to both live and love. Stede keeps speaking the love oxygen until Ed awakes. Stede resuscitated him with his words. Someone was waiting for Ed after all. The ring-knocking was a sort of SOS and Stede never gave up. And now I’m crying again 😭

Act of Grace is an amazing episode. Yes, the interplay between the English officers is lovely and oddly compassionate. I need to watch that again though. I wonder if they’re a couple. I was thinking how the ‘act of grace’ is something Ed undertakes too. It’s similar to the religions ‘state of grace’. He lays down his (old) life for his friend. It’s an act of atonement for his past and sanctification in order to live a different present. The kiss is an act of grace too, I guess. Their actions transfigure them from one state of being to another. I need to re look at all of the episode titles again and think about the layers of meta. I mean, who needs sleep? 🙂

Loving all the close analysis.

I re-watched again from Calypso's Birthday to the end of the series to enjoy the little details you guys had been pointing out.

I do enjoy Con O'Neill so much in those last few episodes. The way he keeps emerging from veils of smoke and shadow to say something devastating. That bit on deck. "Oh, I thought it was Roach." 😂.

It's genius to have someone so dry to counter all Ed and Stede's id and ridiculousness. And then at the end: "Stay with me, Eddie."

It's a work of art. No wonder it bears multiple rewatches.

It's a work of art. No wonder it bears multiple rewatches.
For me, I'm all about character over plot in TV shows - their histories, their motivations, their hopes and dreams. Who is that person, really? And this is what fascinates me about this show. The characters are so complex; so many layers, so many masks. This combined with the amount of detail that has gone into the set, the lighting, the costumes - it really is a masterpiece. And you can't possibly take all that in on even just a few watches. It's why some of us are still noticing new things after... what? 20/30/40 viewings? Whether that's a glance, a smile (or lack of one), or a piece of costume or set dressing. Just the smallest look can reveal something new.

I mean, who needs sleep? 🙂
@MrsJellybee how on earth do you manage to come up with such complex analysis in the middle of the night? I often think I'm coherent at that time, and then in the morning when I've slept some more I realise I'm making no sense at all!! Your observations about the ring finger/SOS are beautiful.

This show has sent me half-mad like Ed, I think. 🤪 The level of meta, it’s like a moving novel. I have never seen a tv show like this before. I feel a new genre and/ or medium has been invented, and only a few of us have been blessed to find it. It’s magic.

I occasionally think about recommending it to my best friend but I always wimp out. I really don't think I could cope if they didn't like it and I know there would be a poor reaction to saying that you have to watch at least three episodes before making a decision about how you feel. They certainly wouldn't hold back with their opinion either.

I know what you mean @CarlaH, I’ve shared it with a couple of people who I think would ‘get’ it, but I’m a bit wary of sharing it with others.

On another note in Calypso’s Birthday, I reckon the sexy walk on deck moment is because of Stede’s shirt! At what point exactly in the series did he become sexy?!

It was DJs stated aim for S2 to make Stede Bonnet sexy. He certainly succeeded! His shirt V-necks definitely got lower and lower 😁. The calypso episode was when he got his new outfit at the market, so that was the biggest change, I think.

Oh!!!! The red suit!!! How could I forget about that? I have 2 different noise sources blaring at me atm - that's my excuse 🫣

It’s this shirt and trouser combo. But mostly the shirt. His hair is less foppish than season one also.

I’m not keen on the shirt Ed finds attractive, but…

‘I like that shirt’ on Rhys. I honestly think it’s reversing my peri. ⬇️

That’s the one!
I watched the episode today and Stede is absolutely not sexy in that one bless him!

Can I post this one again?

That should have been ‘the art of fuckery’ episode I watched today.

@TriceratopsRocks feel free to post that daily 🙃

Thing is, I think Rhys Stede is sexy in S2 because of his attitude. At the end of S1 he has his epiphany and from that point on he is a changed man. Not only has he realised that he is in love, but he knows with absolute certainty that Ed loves him back. So he is suddenly brimming with the confidence of a man on a mission to find his boyfriend and declare his undying love, knowing that love is returned. He has also grown in confidence as a captain, has the trust and support of his crew and is able to show real leadership, eg planning/leading their escape from Zheng to reclaim the Revenge. So he is winning at being a successful pirate captain, he's been reunited with his love who is equally besotted, and it's that new attitude that makes him sexy. I present my evidence as follows:
Exhibit 1: S1E10 - he's determined, he's ditched the frills for a more simple, masculine look
Exhibit 2: S2E3 - same shirt, more confidence
Exhibit 3: S2E5 - new red shirt, he's at ease and he's happy
Exhibit 4: (I won't post it again, but it's the undoubtedly sexy pic I post just above)
Exhibit 5: He has skills! Prowess in battle! And we see his new outfit in full - those lovely leather trousers and boots, that shirt. Stede is winning at life at this one.
Exhibit 6: The English uniform. Stylish, smart, intense, responsible, gorgeous...

<sigh> (I need the 'melting' emoji here)

This thread has moved on so much, it’s fantastic, so much food for thought! I was still thinking about a couple of things mentioned yesterday: the use of ‘whim’ and their description of themselves as whim-prone – I think it’s because they know they look like that to others who don’t realise how much thought and deep longing has gone into the decisions that society doesn’t understand and judges to be foolish – Stede becoming a pirate; Ed leaving a profitable pirating career and losing an identify. Both of them are leaving behind situations that the external world judges, in different ways, to be desirable, therefore that world believes that these can’t be rational, considered decisions, but must be whims that will later be regretted. So they’re at this point they’re still internalising those judgements and including their relationship in those judgements too. By the end, they’ve broken free of those external expectations and can happily settle down together in the scrappiest inn ever. But as far as their relationship is concerned, as mentioned above, for Ed at least, he's fully committing to Stede in Act of Grace and seeing them as a couple, even before they kiss and he finds out Stede feels the same. It's the solid, non-whim part of his life and identity - I love 'I was all in'.

I do think Ed’s fishing counts as a whim though as it's based on just one fishing expedition and catching one fish.

Mirrors – I hadn’t spotted the mirroring in the wall slam at all – but now I know it’s there I wondered about whether it’s to reflect the fact that although they’ve now been clear with each other about how they love each other and how much they want to be together, there’s still something unresolved getting in the way – Ed’s restlessness and uncertainty (he leaves Stede only 12 hours or so later)? His deepseated fear, still lingering, that he’s not loveable and doesn’t deserve Stede? So seeing that kiss through a mirror, and seeing them in bed through a curtain rather than clearly, implies that there’s still something not quite there yet? Then the kiss on the beach couldn’t be more the opposite – open space, shouting each other’s names into the wind, running towards each other in front of everyone.

The elbow touch vs other tender moments being in private - I'm going to watch for this on my rewatches - I hadn't spotted that private/public distinction as it's so clear that the crew know what's going on. I so wish we'd seen them dancing together - I wonder if it was filmed? There are so many lovely tender looks between them in that episode though.

And 100% yes for Stede being so much more attractive in S2 because of his confidence in himself and his knowledge that he's adored, but more superficially I think the change in his style really suits him too, and he definitely looks good in teal and cream, and in those boots. His confidence in his leadership/pirate skills is on shakier ground in episode 8 though I think, when he's with Zheng - she could do with learning some of his people-positive management skills.