Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the renewal petition.

For anyone who hasn't come across it yet, I would thoroughly recommend. It starts off as a sort of workplace comedy set on a pirate ship, sort of in the style of Ghosts, and with a similar fanbase to Good Omens. When the 2nd lead character arrives at the end of episode 3, it starts to change and it only hit me two thirds of the way through season 1 that I was actually watching a very different sort of show to the one I thought I had started watching.

From that point it's phenomenal. The attention to detail is superb. Both leads are clearly neuro diverse, from abusive backgrounds and damaged because of these. They both want what they think the other one has. It's about them discovering themselves, accepting themselves for who they really are, and healing. There is comedy, but also heartbreak and despair. The show handles these so sensitively and accurately, down to minute details, and Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby deserve every award under the sun for their work here.

I don't think I've ever obsessed about a show as much as this one. I've tried to make this not too spoilery in case some of you want to watch it, but really I just want someone to talk to about it! I've already watched it countless times and the more I rewatch the more I appreciate it. I said I was obsessed and I really am!

The show has sadly been cancelled, despite its popularity, and the producers are currently trying to see if it will be picked up by another network. I have read that they are keeping an eye on the iPlayer numbers as part of this, so I also wanted to shamelessly plug it here 😁

If any of you haven't seen it and fancy giving it a try, it grows into itself in the first season and you really need to give it at least 4 episodes (episode 4 is where the main story really starts). Its not a show I would have thought to watch myself (DD wanted me to watch it with her) but I'm so glad I have.

I don't really know what I want from this thread really. I want more people to find it, but I also want to just talk about it and obviously can't do that without more spoilers than I've already given. Help me out people!

I am very familiar with neurodiversity in my immediate family, and I do see many autistic traits in Stede. It's an interesting comment from Rhys and could well be why - he describes Stede as a role he was born to play. I am less familiar with ADHD, but I know a lot of people see those traits in Ed, and also in Taika. The issue with neurodiversity and labels nowadays, though, is that sometimes you simply can't get the support you need without that diagnosis.

As far as the show goes, the nearest thing for me is a love of Buffy the vampire slayer. I watch that every couple of years and have sought out cast interviews, you tube vids etc. But it doesn't come remotely close to my obsession with OFMD, where I'm doing that every day, plus fanfic, plus seeking out other things the cast have done. I've even created a Tumblr blog I sometimes post on. And made GIFs! 😁 This is definitely the first time I've considered myself a member of a fandom. As some of you have said, I am living and breathing it. It has done something to my brain, and I love it 😁

If only I'd won more than another ticket :) But it does mean there's still a chance. We could yet be Mumsnetters in Basingstoke 🤞

I think many see themselves in the two leads’, be it ASD, ADHD or PTSD. Or all three. As well as LGBTQ+ POC and other marginalised indigenous groups. I have never seen such a diverse cast where nothing is made of the diversity.

I saw some fascinating comments on Izzy recently. That Izzy is Ed’s executive function. Also that Izzy thinks he is in Black Sails whilst he is actually in Muppet Treasure Island as the only human 🤣. I find Izzy’s character arc fascinating. I also found my feelings towards him conflicting. I understood his frustrations at Blackbeard’s behaviours. He’s like a middle management lackey trying to get the CEO to understand today’s business meeting agenda and the boss just wants to play golf. He descends into toxicity though and nearly causes Ed’s death.

His redemption is through his own death and realisations that he pushed Edward too far due to his own needs. Izzy’s in love with ‘Blackbeard’ and fights very hard to not let the persona disappear. After Izzy causes Ed’s Kraken spiral, Ed becomes a parody of his former self. It’s as if his identity is entirely unmoored after Stede leaves. He cannot go back to his old mask, but instead creates a subverted stereotype which he only drops when alone in Stede’s room. Those scenes where Ed is crying alone or playing with the wedding cake figures kill me. Izzy comments gleefully that ‘Ed is himself again’ after making Izzy eat his own toe; but Ed isn’t, which Izzy later realises. When we learn later Izzy is the one who refuses to throw the body overboard once Ed is ‘murdered’, this is the beginning of the New Unicorn Izzy.

This was longer than I intended. I just love Izzy. I love all of them. Love this show so much.

I listened to a podcast on the relationship, and possibly the romance between the real life Stede Bonnet and Blackbeard recently.

I’m on the second series of OFMD now & loving every minute of it.

Apologies if someone else has already posted this;

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/10/23/was-blackbeard-queer-our-flag-means-death-true-story/#:~:text=Many%20historians%20aren't%20fully,t%20uncommon%20during%20Blackbeard's%20time.

I don't think it has - thank you :) But never apologise for posting OFMD info! Particularly as I am usually on the app so it's a real pain to scroll back up to find things posted a while ago.

*I have never seen such a diverse cast where nothing is made of the diversity.

Same. And it's so wonderful. A real breath of fresh air.

@MrsJellyBee my take on Izzy is similar to yours. He is such a fantastic character and Con played him amazingly. I see him both as Ed's abuser and as representing the toxic masculinity the show is saying is bad, but which he is also a victim of. I do like the fact that he got some personal healing with the love of the crew and Calypso's birthday, but he was still wrong/reframing things right up until his deathbed and I wanted his realisation and apology to come sooner.

I think I saw the same comments you did about Black Sails/Muppets 🤣.

Oh, and yes, Ed's tears and desperation in the Kraken era are truly heartbreaking. I'm on those episodes atm in my latest rewatch.

It is a bit of a shocker that scene when he has to practically crawl out of the room and is next seen hiding in the bath.

Mind you I stayed in a property last year with a bath like that and it was most impractical for actual washing...copper does look lovely though!

I love the bath scene. I love that Ed’s under Stede’s robe. 🥰

I’ve been thinking about the petrified orange. Is it Stede’s heart? Ed’s is the red silk, obviously.

Another thing I noticed last night (binge-watching favourite scenes) is the amazing mirroring of the two ‘You wear fine things well’ scenes

Scene one, Ed has ‘failed’ at the aristocratic party
Scene two, Ed ‘triumphs’ with the fish (note Stede’s supportive comments both times)

Scene one, both dressed in costume to impress society
Scene two, both trying out new identities for themselves

Scene one, Ed - ‘this old thing?’
Scene two, Stede - ‘this new thing?’

Scene one, YWFTW - Stede
Scene two, YWFTW - Ed

Scene one - physically awkward. Ed steps towards Stede then backs away, tries a macho punch
Scene two - less awkward. I love Ed’s shoulder swaggers as he moves in for the kiss. Someone suggested he’s trying to make his kitty-bell jingle so as not to ‘creep up’ on Stede. 😻The first kiss on the beach was a surprise to Stede. This one is much more consensual. (Not perfect, that comes later).

Scene one - feelings internalised / not fully realised
Scene two - feelings externalised (wanting to take it slow etc.)

Scene one - physically awkward body language
Scene two - relaxed body language, hand-holding, playing

Scene one - leave separately, longing glances
Scene two - leave together, relaxed conversation

Scene one - full moon - romantic trope
Scene two - gibbous moon - not sure why. Slightly concerns me. More realism?

I know there was a lot of improv in OFMD, but this is so clearly and beautifully planned out. Amazing.

Another thing I noticed last night (binge-watching favourite scenes) is the amazing mirroring of the two ‘You wear fine things well’ scenes

These are wonderful scenes and I agree . The mirroring between seasons in the whole show has clearly had a lot of thought put into it.

As well as the things you mentioned, the other thing I love about that scene is how it changes when viewed from Ed and Stede's different perspectives. S1E5 is from Ed's perspective - we see Stede fold the red silk perfectly, and the intensity of Ed's reaction is like we can see deep into his soul (eyes! that little release of breath!); it's so obvious just how much that moment means to him. But when Stede recollects that scene in S2E2, when he folds the silk into Ed's pocket, it's a bit of a mess. And we see Ed's face how Stede saw it - it's a similar take, but the intensity of feeling from Ed just isn't there, because Stede himelf didn't recognise it at the time. It's sooo clever.

Also when Ed steps forward as if to kiss Stede the first time, Stede doesn't recognise what's happening so Ed backs off. The second time, when Ed repeats "you wear fine things well", it's like he's explaining to Stede just how much that moment meant to him, and also giving Stede permission after the previous episode where Ed was angry with him ("you don't get to say that"). Almost giving him a 'heads up' so this time when Ed goes to kiss Stede, Stede understands and responds.

I did see something about that scene in an interview with DJ, and if I remember right, the changes in the moon were meant to show the difference between a 'fantasy/magical' aspect in S1, but a more 'realistic' one in S2, as their relationship has developed. I just had a quick look back but can't see what interview it was, though.

This post is just brilliant. It's amazing reading so much stuff online and then rewatching and seeing what people are talking about.

Obviously the vast majority of the audience will never get to see all the effort that has gone into making this show because they will only watch once.

I have a whole list of things I want to point out to my OH if I can ever persuade him to watch again (such as the lovely moment when Ed puts his head on Stede's comforting hand during the bathtub scene). Whether he will appreciate that is quite another matter. If you aren't that invested in the romance then it probably isn't of much interest to you.

Of course he might not be willing to watch again anyway. I am going to try in October/November when the nights draw in and I need something to cheer me up.

But when Stede recollects that scene in S2E2, when he folds the silk into Ed's pocket, it's a bit of a mess. And we see Ed's face how Stede saw it - it's a similar take, but the intensity of feeling from Ed just isn't there, because Stede himelf didn't recognise it at the time. It's sooo clever.

I will rewatch that when I finish work! Thank you for pointing this out.

I had a bit of Lucius binge this morning before work. I think he’s marvellous. Can’t think of another show where the ‘Gay Best Friend’ is a friend to… other gay people i.e. just another friend. His being gay is not the thing that most defines him as in this world, it’s normative (unless you’re Izzy who has parachuted in from a more repressed time). I don’t know why, but the ‘It’s not a care package’ after the yummy lavender soap inquiry cracks me up.

Obviously the vast majority of the audience will never get to see all the effort that has gone into making this show because they will only watch once.

It's such a shame, isn't it. But it's why there's just so much to talk about!

I have a whole list of things I want to point out to my OH if I can ever persuade him to watch again (such as the lovely moment when Ed puts his head on Stede's comforting hand during the bathtub scene).

This reminds me. Ages ago I saw a very detailed analysis where someone had looked at every physical interaction of Stede's over the whole first season (they even did a spreadsheet!). I think the conclusion was that Stede had some real hangups about touch - he rarely (if ever?) initiated it, except where it could be seen to be accidental. But he does give openings to other people to touch him if they wanted to. I think this was one of those moments; Stede putting his hand where Ed could choose to use it for comfort but not initiating anything himself. It also reminds me about how Stede always respects Ed's boundaries and asks/waits for consent before any meaningful interaction. I'll see if I can find that touch anyalysis later. Someone had obviously put many hours into it. I think they wanted to show just how much thought and nuance Rhys had put into Stede.

I will rewatch that when I finish work! Thank you for pointing this out.

When I first noticed this, I put them side by side on my PC screen to make sure. It happens so often in this show, though, where they use different takes to show differences in memory or perspective. I find it fascinating.

I don’t know why, but the ‘It’s not a care package’ after the yummy lavender soap inquiry cracks me up.

I love that one too. And I like him taking the telescope. Lucius is great😁 But his language around breakups is interesting when Stede hasn't even recognised his and Ed's relationship yet.

Ahoy Shipmates … just back from a weekend away where I converted 3 more people to our wonderful show.

On the physical side, I like to watch the bits where one of them in under some sort of the threat, and the other stands in the way and shields them.

I find the Calico Jack thing interesting .. what was Ed so scared of that he decided to run away (although he came back)? Stede had already seen him at his murderous (maiming) worst

I did see someone point out (not sure if it is in this thread or elsewhere) that when Stede and Mary are having their portrait painted he has just the very tips of his fingers touching her shoulder.

Clearly he was able to handle a bit more on occasion as they had a couple of children LOL.

I really love the embrace on the beach and am thinking that maybe that should be the background on my iPad. I suspect my OH wouldn't be impressed if I used it on our desktop pc.

Lucius is great😁 But his language around breakups is interesting when Stede hasn't even recognised his and Ed's relationship yet.

I know, it’s so 21st century language as well. 🤣

Lucius is their support human and relationship advisor. He is also emotionally intelligent. He clearly knows Ed is in love under the mask of Blackbeard. He also knows Stede doesn’t realise Ed’s or his own feelings yet which is why Ed gets the ‘puddle of his own piss’ dressing down.

L: ‘Do we think this is more of a spat or a rupture with Blackbeard?’
S: ‘I think it’s done’. What’s done, Stede? What’s done? (He knows on some level)

I did see something about that scene in an interview with DJ, and if I remember right, the changes in the moon were meant to show the difference between a 'fantasy/magical' aspect in S1, but a more 'realistic' one in S2, as their relationship has developed. I just had a quick look back but can't see what interview it was, though.

I remember that. I think it was a waxing moon in S2 to signify their growing relationship. And the “you wear fine things” in S1….. I just love Stede’s reaction to Ed moving in to him. You just see the silhouette of him opening in mouth in an “oh sh*t / what??” kind of way! He had no idea what was happening bless him.

Lucius is great😁 But his language around breakups is interesting when Stede hasn't even recognised his and Ed's relationship yet.

And Lucius when he’s talking to Ed in the blanket fort. He’s such a sweetheart.
🥰

Ahoy, ExtraOnions! Hope it was an excellent weekend, and how great that you made new converts :)

I find the Calico Jack thing interesting .. what was Ed so scared of that he decided to run away (although he came back)? Stede had already seen him at his murderous (maiming) worst

I've just assumed that this was it was his low self esteem talking. He thinks he doesn't deserve happiness; that he's a monster and one day Stede will realise that. He automatically puts on an act with Jack - behaving like a pirate is 'supposed' to where people get hurt, and Stede doesn't like it. Because Ed thinks he is that bad person, he takes it as a rejection, so leaves. I'm sure things aren't helped by the mixed signals he gets from Stede, because of Stede not understanding his own feelings. That's just my take though!

L: ‘Do we think this is more of a spat or a rupture with Blackbeard?’
S: ‘I think it’s done’. What’s done, Stede? What’s done? (He knows on some level)

Ooh this is interesting. I've always been very clear in my head that that Stede had a genuine lightbulb moment with the "His name is Ed" scene. But you are right; what is done? Their friendship? Surely he realises that people don't normally have such an intense reaction to a 'friend' leaving? But he's never had a friend before, so maybe he doesn't? Poor Stede, he's just so confused. But this is good place for a favourite screenshot. "You came back"....

And this was the analysis of 'touch' that I found, if anyone is interested...

https://triflesandparsnips.tumblr.com/post/688187186284298240/stede-bonnet-is-weird-about-touch

In celebration of today being Shakespeare’s birthday, I rewatched ‘The Art of Fuckery’. There are so many Shakespeare references and subversions in it, it’s a delight! I’ve tried to list as many as I noticed below:

’There’s something witchy-afoot’ - Buttons/Macbeth allusion

Appearing to control the weather - Ed/ Prospero (The Tempest)

Appearing as an apparition or spectre - Ed/ Hamlet’s father’s ghost

Dripping poisonous words into your master’s ear - Izzy/Iago (Othello)

Lover must be killed to protect reputation -Ed/Stede Othello/Desdemona

Skull holding - Stede, dressed as Hamlet / Hamlet & Yorricks skull

The ‘play within a play’ - OFMD & Dutch Vessel Fuckery / ‘Hamlet’&The Mousetrap

Procrastination in killing - Ed & Stede / Hamlet & King Claudius (subverted further

as in OFMD, ‘King’ Ed is preparing to kill ‘Hamlet’ Stede)

Amputation - Lucius’ finger / Titus Andronicus (I won’t describe further…)

’The play’s the thing to catch the conscience of the King!’ - Ed’s conscience is severely tested when the fake Kraken knocking on the window reawakens past trauma over the murder of his own father, and his plan also to kill Stede. / Hamlet - Claudius has a similar reaction to a play depicting the murder of a his brother.

The final duel - ‘Hamlet’ Stede & Izzy / Hamlet & Laertes - no one dies in this version whereas both die in Shakespeare’s version.

Elsewhere in the series we have so many staples of Shakespearean comedy: clothes swapping, clothes as identity, mistaken identity, unclear gender, social masks, appearance and reality, deception… Plus Romeo and Juliet us-against-the-world angst, misunderstanding and separation.

The series is a masterpiece and HBO Max are on the wrong side of history for cancelling this show for so many reasons. They should be made to read everything on the internet as to why OFMD is… it just is.

His little face. 😍

Like all of you, I’m obsessed and therefore delighted to have found this thread of fellow obsessives and to know that I’m not the only one. I have complete mentionitis but no one to talk to about it so – thank you so much @TriceratopsRocks for this safe space ship.

I don’t think I’ve ever been like this about a TV programme and I feel ridiculous. When I’m going to sleep at night, scenes from the show are running through my head. I whiled away the time during a spin class yesterday seeing how much of Blackbeard’s Bar and Grill I could remember. My family have banned me playing the Chain and Because the Night, and Seabird and This Woman’s Work are heading that way too. To make things worse I’m self employed and hopelessly distractable at the best of times, let alone with a full-on teenaged crush on pirates. All day I’m thinking about the show on at least some level, and then at night I watch another episode, or my favourite scenes, while scrolling through OFMD social media or reddit (a new experience) for character or music analysis.

And I didn’t even want to watch it! My teenage son was keen but I was ready to give up after a couple of episodes. Then suddenly boom, it turned into a beautiful slow burn love story and I was hooked. Stede was a delight from the start but I didn’t really get Ed until ‘You wear fine things well’ and that look of hurt and vulnerability when he wants to leave the dinner party. Now my phone gallery is full of screenshots of Ed (S2 hair and beard, preferably in leather) or the two of them gazing at each other. And the more I watch, the more I love the quirks and sweetness of the rest of the crew too.

This thread is a glorious find – thank you all for sharing thoughts and links - now I just need several hours to read all the comments, watch all the videos and maybe even try to find out how fanfic works…

I'm not sure whether this link has already been shared or not, but it's a joy

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/eAquNzx1q5183Wco/

The soundtrack to series 1 and 2 is now on Spotify, YT and Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flag-Means-Death-Soundtrack-Original/dp/B09Y8SCHMF