Who is watching Doctor Who tonight

[Firefly2009]

And if you've now seen it, what are your thoughts?

I'm predicting I will love it no matter what. But look forward to discussing it.

I think one of the issues with the last Doctor (and indeed the most recent episode) is the Doctor is meant to be fun but they are also dangerous, selfish, emotionally immature and otherworldly. They aren't the new best friend or gang leader. The teialers for Sturday where the Doctor describes Donna as his "best friend" is odd. We know the Doctor walks away from companions without a second glance.

Matt Smith got that the most right out of all the modern incarnations I think.

Totally agree.

The BBC is meant to be impartial in its programming unless it's clear that there is a belief being supported e.g. Songs of Praise for Christians.

Some people believe that we all have a gender identity and some people don't. Having representation of someone who does (a transgirl) needs to be handled carefully in any programme that children would watch because they are very likely to perceive gender identity as a universal truth. It is irresponsible of the BBC to push this, not least because of the impact on women's and girls' sports (where boys/men who identify as girls/women are still entering girls' and women's categories in many sports) and the NHS-commissioned Cass Review which found that some children are socially transitioning and "locking in" gender identities, then getting distressed when they go through the "wrong puberty". Children's capacity to understand what makes them a boy or a girl will be solely based on stereotypes.

Thanks bonfire. well put. For those of you, like me , who have a young child influenced by this, or who are concerned at the messages being sledgehammered,
Please jot the bbc a quick note https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Sorry I sound a bit rant-y. Thanks to stuff like this ( and cartoons of girls with double mastectomies advertising costa coffee) DD is now of the belief that testosterone (steroids rebranded) is safe, easy, and saves lives. We are now desperately trying to convince her that she doesn’t need a binder. Or steroids.
This came on soddenly at 15 with no warning. And though I sound a bit rant-y it’s because I don’t want you or youpr kids to go through the same unescearry suprise. And it really is a surprise, and not a good one.
if anyone is interested, genspect a wider lens podcast has a very useful explanation ( episode 1, I think explains in a non critical way)
I am not the most eloquent of posters, and don’t want to scare anyone off/sound over passionate, but please read up a bit. Thank you!

We are in a similar position @Drwhattf
I was in two minds about posting on a TV fan page as there is understandably much love for a show that has been running for years. I too grew up watching and loving Dr Who.
There was a 5000% increase in girls being referred with gender dysphoria just before the UK's gender clinic closed to new referrals last year. Half of all referrals are autistic. There are many boys that were/are being referred too.
Sadly, Dr Who is one of many places that are telling children that they can be a boy or a girl (or neither), depending on what they want to be. Initially the message is always positive, about challenging stereotypes and celebrating that anyone can wear any clothes or play with any toys.. then it flips in the idea that we all have a gendered soul, an innate gender identity... and that your gendered soul is identified by looking at which stereotypes you prefer (or a rejection of all in the case of a non-binary identity)... and then the next step is to change your body to match your gendered soul. There are even non-binary people having surgeries to match their gender identity, such as the Canadian footballer, Quinn, who played in the women's world cup earlier this year. As with Rose in Dr Who, Quinn's identity was celebrated in the world press. Both Rose and Quinn are in positions that are role models for children. There are also lots of Tiktoks of adolescent girls (who identify as boys or non-binary) sharing their double mastectomy "top surgery" stories.

I'll leave it there now, and respectfully leave everyone to the fan chat, but just wanted to send solidarity to a fellow parent caught up in this and echo the caution to other parents on here who may not realise just how widely spread this is in our children's lives. There is an area of Mumsnet that is full of lots of interesting discussions about gender identity. If anyone is interested, it's the "Feminism: sex and gender" board.

I do share concerns with previous posters - especially round how easy and simple it's all made out to be - though a lot of the normalisation that the interview after the program made clear it was aiming for I'd say already happened years ago. Not a new idea for my kids thanks to their schools and peers and even in a rural town stood at a bus stop an obvious transwomen in queue didn't rate a second look from anyone young or old.

I don't always agree with this reviewer -but I hadn't seen the Children in Need special and I do think he may have a point.

Please can someone start a new thread, where we can talk about the show

This is a thread to talk about the show?

I'm sorry. Did you mean to be so rude?

We are talking about the show: it's artist merit and entertainment value, it's relevance (all sci-fi tends to reflect the time it's written rather than be a statement of the future) and its impact.

What exactly did you hope to talk about in addition to this?

Why don't you start a different thread if this one isn't to your liking?

Isn't it annoying when you expect one thing but it turns out to be another?
Like when what-should-be-a-children's-programme turns out to be a cross between a sermon and indoctrination. And, also, so up its own fundament and self-referential that it doesn't make sense to the uninitiated.

Page 3 | Children's Programme Doctor Who: 60th anniversary | Mumsnet

Hey @samcro
Here you go: you can just chat on this one if you want or I'll start a new one for Saturday's episode. BonfireLady was nice enough to say "I'll leave it there now, and respectfully leave everyone to the fan chat" because this is in Telly Addicts not Feminism Sex and Gender.
Makes no difference to me, I can see the overlap and don't mind a good debate and there'll be fans who are also gc. That said, this thread has been hijacked somewhat when there is already a Dr Who thread in Feminism too. Did anyone watch Doctor Who? | Mumsnet
I can chat on all of them but, as with Drag Race, I'll ask Mumsnet for a separate telly thread as some of us do want to talk only without discussing politics/ideology. It works both ways, some of us know the arguments inside out and don't need educating from either side. Peace and love x

I appreciate the subject is Dr Who but I'm not quite sure how we can time travel could have posted on that on Saturday/Sunday/Monday when the thread in feminism chat was started yesterday...

New Thread for Dr. Who Special 2: Wild Blue Yonder Saturday 2nd December 6.30pm NO ADVANCE SPOILERS PLS | Mumsnet
For Saturday's episode.
Absolutely a fair point red jumps into
This thread and that one can keep the conversation going x

Sorry guys. and thank you bonfire lady I love doc who, and love watching it with DD which is why I’m sensitive to it all being a bit full on.
on a Telly show kind of thing, I loved Donna, she’s a strong character, and I love the fun they have together. I think R may have got a bit full of his own genius, - more tuna madras humor please!

No apology necessary drwhatthef- your post was important and I hope you find a way forward with your daughter soon. Mine is also neurodivergent. They had very short asymmetric hair at the start of last year and wore trousers and looked great (not as an identity thing just because they liked and rocked that look). Sadly, they've now gone the other way for the wrong reasons: having been misgendered (called a boy) and teased for not being feminine, they're now insisting on wearing lipgloss, growing their hair long and wearing skirts - albeit the bad weather has brought back trousers.
Peer pressure and bullying and labels have a lot to answer for.
I couldn't give a fig whether they want to look "girly" or not - it's biology not make up that make them female. It's just a shame they've felt the need to buy in to make up = woman. And I love glitz and glam but they were so happy with short hair until assholes made them feel lesser for it.
They have Debate Club at school and trans in women's sports was debated recently so there is debate happening in secondaries. It's a tough one - there is a student identifying as non-binary but they are being bullied mercilessly and have had to change school once already. My daughter had befriended them but then was asked about their relationship relentlessly. Kids can be mean and any difference is picked on. I still strongly suspect trans is being used by some as a label as it's preferable to gay/the same as some students used to say bi before coming out.
But in some schools, especially where I am that's quite working class, there isn't any trans trend, it's more eyerolling, comments about identifying as unicorns and nastiness to anyone who's LGBTQIA. At some point you hope the citizenship lessons will teach them that all tropes/gender roles/sexist stereotypes are just that and that they are all enough in their own skin and their own clothes.

I love sci fi as a genera* *but the show runner is reconning iconic bad guys and giving interviews saying disable people in 2023 can't be evil geniuses who let very little stop them in their goals and also gave an interview after this program saying he was promoting a controversial topic to normalise it to kids.

Sci fi and politics are often linked - it's often a way to explore ideas stripped away from the everyday - but I say the main writer is being very heavy handed about doing this lacking any subtly with the writing and then giving interviewers to really hammer the point home just in case the audience missed the point. It very evident in this episode and doesn't bode well for the rest of the run.

I suppose I have now lowered my expectations to rock bottom - I'm only really watching now as it's one of the very few program DD2 will watch with us - why I still watch bake off as well.

I still don't understand what it was that was let go.

And why women can do it but not men????

Sorry tp hear that.

I hope you and your daughter manage to navigate this unscathed.

I still don't understand what it was that was let go.
And why women can do it but not men????

It's very ambiguous what it refers to - power was my first thought ignoring history, or logical explanations as we are "emotional creatures" reason why we were denied the vote for so long - on-line I've seen it suggested it a refence to women facing more prejudiced and thus can't be bigoted against others because 51-52% of the population must share a Borg mind but suspect it's Deus ex machina - the god machine - ie it's all sorted as the writer has form for this so a magical light was let go and we forget the problem and move on with next plot.

DH reminded me we are waiting for The Toy Maker to appear - and I do love Neil Patrick Harris as an actor he was fantastic as Count Olaf in Netflix Series of Unfortunate Events and made Starship Troopers and How I met your Mother much more watchable.

Both Donna and Rose let go of the regeneration energy inside them (they had half of it each). Wiki says "they expelled the rest of metacrisis from their bodies."
If it was only half as destructive I'm not sure why you'd choose to let go of what timelord energy you have and choose to be human rather than human/quarter timelord. You'd only do that if there was a disadvantage to having it. If it just made you cleverer, surely you'd want to keep it?
But yes, they both chose to let go of the residual energy in their mind but why they had to, how they did it channelling Elsa and why only women could is beyond me - RTD obviously doesn't know me(!) I can hold on to things for years.
It's a weird sexist stereotype there. I think it's meant to be complimentary. Women aren't power-hungry and don't hold onto things for the sake of it/just because they can.
RTD clearly hasn't ever taught young people. Ime many lads actually let go of issues quite quickly forget they ever happened whereas a teenage girl often holds a grudge all term. If it was a metaphor for women's struggles - that we're able to resolve things quicker/able to calm down conflict, inner and outer, it wasn't clear and seemed to be lazy writing again unless he just wanted a shout out to 13/Jodie.

I do love Neil Patrick Harris as an actor
God, yes. His part in It's a sin broke me. He played it beautifully and I was gutted he didn't get nominated for an emmy for it. It was so understated but beautifully done. The scene in the hospital was devastating. Just small touches - where his voice wavered as he was talking about a strip of mould in the kitchen and breathing it in (this was early and the doctors didn't know about hiv yet) which reminds me, it's World Aids day today. RTD may be clunky at times but It's a sin was very accurate and NeiI, a great casting so I look forward to what he brings in the third episode.

I’m looking forward to the next one. I don’t see how we can discuss while ignoring great clanging charging elephants in the plot though.

If they didn’t want us talking about gender ideology, they shouldn’t have included great chunks of dialogue on it!

It’s the equivalent to not discussing having a female dr when Missy, then the Jodie Dr arrived.

I guess we'll see if it continues to be used in the next two as a plot device. I haven't read any spoiler so I don't know tbf. It was heavy on the messaging in the first one but now the metacrisis has been averted, perhaps RTD will follow his own advice and let it go.

I'm more with the Simpsons on this one:
Marge: Lisa, come on, we've got bigger problems!
Lisa: But I'm just so angry!
Marge: You're a woman. You can hold onto this forever.

@SequinsandStiIettos world aids day is tomorrow - December 1st

but thank you for mentioning it x It’s A Sin was a beautiful program