60 Days with the Gypsies

[NatashaBedwouldbenice]

Channel 4. I was surprised to read that this is the first such programme with, I believe a, gypsy producer. I thought it was a very good documentary.

I think the reason they don't use the toilet in their caravans is because it would fill up quickly. Given how hard he found it to get rid of normal rubbish I imagine emptying a portable toilet would be almost impossible.

where I live there are several traveller sites which are more like mobile and permanent homes. They arent caravans - the people live there all the time. I saw on one programme about travellers, a site was being taken back by the council and one of the residents was complaining saying her family had lived there for 40 years. If you live somewhere for 40 years how is a site (usually nor in a particularly convenient or nice area) more appealing than renting or buying a property in the town? Or is mainly about the community living together? (Sorry for the ignorant question!)

As soon as i saw the title i thought it just has be Channel bloody 4 !

Why can’t they drive a car to the local tip? We just have to book a slot and go - there’s no check except for registration? (Genuine questions haven’t seen it)

You have to have a permit and in order to have a permit to have to live in the area
It's the same at our tip

IN our area you need proof of local residency

The issue was his pick up. He’d have been fine in a car.

Ah thank you. I guessed it might be different - we would need a permit for work cans but not cars. Just book and turn up.

Well we need a permit whatever our vehicle here
So it must be like that in some other places too

We can go without booking a slot but work vans needs permits. My Dsis local tip you have to put in your postcode and you are only allowed to go a set number of times/month per household.

I felt this was really lack luster. He spent 60days but it felt across the two episodes like we only ever saw about 5 of those days. He moved around so much (but not with the group's) and really only ever actually spoke about the bill. It felt more like a political stance than a piece of investigative journalism.
It was interesting about the access to recycling centres - ours require proof of address to enter, though you don't need to book a slot, and they're strick about 'works vehicles' -we can't even take our open back classic landrover without a permit (which can only have 5 slots a year). It's very frustrating. We have a huge problem with fly tipping locally, and it's always blamed on the local travellers (which there are a lot of- we have a mix of moving and stationary groups).
We had a group of travellers enter our work premises before we had secure gates. They were there 48hours before they got moved on. The clear up cost £3k because of the damage. I'm sure not every group is the same at all, but it has coloured my impression. There was human waste, they graffitied the side of the building, had huge fires which damaged the grounds (which are a nature reserve) and prevented any workers from getting inside whilst they were here as they blockaded the entrance (plus our security guard was stuck inside). Whatever struggles they have (and I'd agree there are many!!) Nothing excuses that kind of behaviour.

They don't poo in there trailers as its disgusting the toilets and the kitchen is in such a small proximity, also often on sites there are showe blocks and toilets places to wash clothes on site cook ect.

Can someone please tell me why the caravan toilet isn’t used?

I haven't seen it either, but could they club in and rent skips, for the duration of their stay on a site?

Or devise some method of storing rubbish (an empty caravan?) then skip it on the last day?

Also, it's filthy to shit everywhere but your own toilet, so you don't have to deal with it.

My friend used to have settled travellers as neighbours. She caught them weeing by her back gate, at which point she realised what she thought was litter on the little grassy area outside was in fact loo roll .....

SoltWas some groups do get a skip and portable loos. But not all sadly.

I read an AMA on here by a traveller and learnt alot. But I still think that way of life just isn't compatible any more.

What is the fascination with faeces and urine? Its disgusting. Its like we never invented sanitation and always a dirty protest.

The education element scares me - they don't have a choice. Its like they are brainwashed to believe that they must join the man of the house providing for their family.

I watched it and couldn't believe he didn't touch on the animal cruelty issues

I've met some lovely travelling families, their kids are beautifully behaved and turned out immaculately. They live in a house they built on a permanent site. However a different group caused major damage to a memorial garden in a park. Funded by a charity dedicated to providing support for neonatal deaths. Horrendous behaviour.

I used to tutor travellers families at their camp, they used to come into one caravan if they wanted the lessons. Most didn't, some did. I was banned from teaching any science and was not allowed to discuss religion - it was v similar to teaching orthadox jewish or muslim children in this respect. The Grandmothers ruled the roost and like me so I was allowed to get on with it all pretty much left alone. The previous tutor had been disliked and got rid of very quick. They always paid me on time and in cash and their homes were immaculate.

What the fuck was Ed finding so funny about the poor squirrels and birds that made me sad it's sick. It was such a pointless programme.

I don't think everyone thinks of the opportunity to do whatever they choose for a career as being an important part of life. It's a very modern western concept, really, that we somehow become who we are meant to be, or live authentically, through making choices about our life path. That's putting it in a very strong way, but something like that does lie behind the way many people think about education and choosing a career.

For a lot of people historically it was almost the opposite - you know who you are and where you come from by doing the same job as your ancestors and living in the same way, rooted in the same tradition.

I'm not sure that idea is less reasonable, TBH. It seems odd to us but it's not less logical and I'm not sure it produces more unhappy people.

I deal with travellers and education through my job. Home Ed is assessed and often found unsuitable although if the family are not settled then they may be long gone by the time the assessment should take place. The kids are supposed to go back to school but just don't so it goes to court and they get fined, they get told to register at the school they don't and then they get fined again. That only happens if they are settled. If they move around and plenty of families in my area go back and forth between sites in England and then over to Ennis or Tuam and then back to England. They don't necessarily even apply for school as they move around so we will sometimes do a check on children age 5 to 12 and then find older siblings under 16 we didn't know about until a door knock. It is a safeguarding nightmare.
Plenty of Traveller kids are in school and stay there and do achieve but a very large number don't get that chance and their lives are limited as a consequence. It's very sad to know that a child's options are being limited at the age of just 10 or 11.

www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/35700469-where-india-goes

The toilet thing seems to have very deep roots. Romany culture is believed to have its roots, ultimately, in India; India today continues to have quite serious issues with open defecation (large numbers of people pooing on the ground even when latrines are available). It is connected with Hindu ideas about impurity, but it's a real barrier to development, greatly increasing the disease burden and even things like childhood stunting in India, because children who are constantly battling hygeine-related infections have difficulty getting enough nutrients from their food. It's very much an India-centric problem, as the above link describes.

(Please note, most people in India are not engaging in open defecation, and I have never met any Indian diaspora person living in another country who would dream of doing this!)

I am romantic enough to like the idea of having some nomadic people in the UK, but ways need to be found of making sure that people are NOT leaving trash, urine and feces all over the place. It is just not acceptable, period.

Other traveling groups manage this OKShowmen (the traveling groups who run circusesrarely have issues with sedentary populations because they work with local authorities to make sure these kinds of issues do not occur. So do some Romany groups.