Page 3 | The Trial of Louise Woodward

purpleme12 · 2021-11-17T20:31:03+00:00

Did anyone watch this? I'm watching it now It seems they suddenly changed the options for convicting for murder or manslaughter or not guilty to murder or not guilty? I don't know how the American system works Why did they do that? Why can they decide to take away one option midway through? It then says they've gone through all the trial with 16 people on the jury but then they take 4 people out so they can't vote?! I don't understand

AliceAldridge · 19/11/2021 20:00

I don't blame the parents. Louise was employed by an agency for starters. What checks did they do about her experience? However, as medical opinion has now changed, it seems we can't be sure anymore that Louise herself did anything wrong. And yet she still has a conviction. It's so terribly sad all round.

x2boys · 19/11/2021 20:18

@AliceAldridge

I don't blame the parents. Louise was employed by an agency for starters. What checks did they do about her experience? However, as medical opinion has now changed, it seems we can't be sure anymore that Louise herself did anything wrong. And yet she still has a conviction. It's so terribly sad all round.

She was an Au pair,she very likely had little experience in childcare beyond maybe a bit of babysitting,she wasn't a qualified nanny ,so yes I think parents have to take some of the blame here ,they were both Doctors bso I assume fairly wealthy yet they chose to use a cheap au pair rather then proper child care

purplesequins · 19/11/2021 20:26

What checks did they do about her experience?

my experience as au pair in the us at the same time was that I was required to have a police certificate (similar to dbs, don't remember what it was called in 1996), a couple of childcare references (from babysitting jobs), a character reference (from a priest, or a teacher or similar).
when arriving in us a 3 day mandatory course in basic hygiene, basic child development, customs in us, basic law.

Frazzled2207 · 19/11/2021 20:35

I was the same age as her at the time. Perhaps she was responsible for the death, but she probably wasn’t. Either way she was yout and naïve and it was a tragic accident and horrendous experience for her.
She gets papped occasionally but understandably i don’t think she’s courted any attention since that one interview she did when she got back.
I believe she is now married with a child.

AliceAldridge · 19/11/2021 21:24

We don't know for certain anymore that Louise was even implicated (my own guess is it was a tragic accident caused by a prior fall or something falling).

So I don't see the point in blaming the parents for hiring her as an au pair when (since we don't know what happened anymore), she may in fact have been perfectly capable of looking after a baby.

x2boys · 19/11/2021 21:34

There is no point in blaming then ,but I just feel it's a bit irresponsible hiring a young inexperienced girl to look after their very young children ,they were not happy with her care anyway ,but still allowed her to have sole responsibility of a young toddler and an eight month old baby ,
That said I do think that whatever happened it was a tragic accident ,and heartbreaking for everyone

AliceAldridge · 19/11/2021 22:02

I do agree that generally speaking they were very young children to have such a young au pair.

purplesequins · 19/11/2021 22:05

an au pair is very flexible, compared to regular daycare. that's why my family had au pairs.

as dr louise's family might had to do weird shifts that would be difficult to cover with a 8-6 nanny or nursery.

some parents also might hire an au pair for the cultural or language connection.

my family was loaded. I was one of 3 full time staff (housekeeper&cleaner), large house, swimming pool...

x2boys · 19/11/2021 22:17

Yes I visited my friend in Boston a week after the verdict she was working as an Au pair but the children she was responsible for were eight and ten years so a big difference ,she was also about 22 at the time so quite a bit older than Louise ,her responsibilities were getting the children up and ready for school ,and picking them up after school ,taking them ,to activities giving them their evening meal untill their parents got home ,so not to taxing I stayed for ten days and we did go out in the evenings but it's easier getting school aged children up and ready in the mornings than caring for a toddler and baby who would need everything doing for them

x2boys · 19/11/2021 22:23

@purplesequins

an au pair is very flexible, compared to regular daycare. that's why my family had au pairs.

as dr louise's family might had to do weird shifts that would be difficult to cover with a 8-6 nanny or nursery.

some parents also might hire an au pair for the cultural or language connection.

my family was loaded. I was one of 3 full time staff (housekeeper&cleaner), large house, swimming pool...

I mean I get that as well I was a nurse when my boys were very little here in the UK lots of unsocial shifts ,but they could have hired a qualified nanny ,but I assume they would be far more expensive ,if I wasn't happy with the care an au pair was giving my kids and apparently Matthews parents were not u couldn't continue to let the aupair care for them , children of that age are so vulnerable.

Lunde · 19/11/2021 22:36

@Emmelina

I’ll give it a watch over the weekend on the hub. I vaguely remember parts of the trial back when it happened; they really went at her over her British terminology “popped him on the bed”. I didn’t realise at the time that “popped” means something else in America, so was very confused about how they weren’t understanding!

I watched the trial in real time on bed rest with pre-eclampsia and this miscommunication really stood out for me. The police interpreted "I popped him on the bed" as a violent act - one cop talked of her slamming him down so the police did not really look further

I'm not sure whether she gave evidence or if it was part of the additional reporting but I saw an interview with their previous au-pair before Louise who quit because of the older sibling's behaviour and not feeling that she could keep the children safe.

It brought home that au-pairs were exploited foreign labour in the US. Working 50+ hours a week for $100, expected to be a nanny-housekeeper doing childcare in sole charge of a toddler and baby, and the parents wanted planned activities, doing the family washing, cleaning and cooking both for the kids and some days for the parents. Additionally the parents expected her to read child development textbooks in her free time. I was surprised that 2 doctors were not using professional childcare.

Lunde · 19/11/2021 22:44

I have a Swedish friend who was an au-pair in the US a couple of years before this and the tales she tells are an eye-opener. The child she was looking after had a serious neurological disorder but the parents delegated attending medical and therapy appointments to the au-pair (with her writing them a summary of what was discussed as they didn't attend) and she had to do all of the speech and physiotherapy and keep records for the paediatrician ... all of which sounds way above the paygrade for a less than $2 employee.

Frazzled2207 · 19/11/2021 22:47

@AliceAldridge

I do agree that generally speaking they were very young children to have such a young au pair.

Having now had two children of my own I am staggered that anyone would expect a 19 yo girl without proper training could be expected to look after a baby and toddler by herself all day.

I don’t think anyone here would contemplate that as a reasonable option! If would be grandparents, nursery, qualified childminder or a nanny.

Doggydoodah123 · 19/11/2021 23:22

Louise Woodward lives in my town is married and has a child of her own. I remember watching the original trial and have to admit the smirking made me think she was guilty but apparently it was nervous laughing. I guess we will never know what truly happened but I feel that no matter how much she tries people will always suspect that she did it.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 19/11/2021 23:31

@x2boys

I also seem to remember Matthew had older injuries ?

I seem to remember that too. I will watch it and comment afterwards. What channel is it on?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 19/11/2021 23:32

@Doggydoodah123

Louise Woodward lives in my town is married and has a child of her own. I remember watching the original trial and have to admit the smirking made me think she was guilty but apparently it was nervous laughing. I guess we will never know what truly happened but I feel that no matter how much she tries people will always suspect that she did it.

My friend's husband met her and said he wasn't expecting to like her as much as he did, he said she was lovely.

x2boys · 19/11/2021 23:34

@Doggydoodah123

Louise Woodward lives in my town is married and has a child of her own. I remember watching the original trial and have to admit the smirking made me think she was guilty but apparently it was nervous laughing. I guess we will never know what truly happened but I feel that no matter how much she tries people will always suspect that she did it.

Tbh I do get the nervous smiling and laughing I used to be a mental health nurse occasionally in extremely traumatic situation I would smile or giggle innapropriatley ,and also in a personal level when being told of a very unexpected death of a very close relative I laughed in shock ,I was then sick It does happen and she was so young ,non of us will ever know what really happened but it was a tragic case

x2boys · 19/11/2021 23:39

It's on catch up @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor .Itv hub

wanttomarryamillionaire · 19/11/2021 23:39

I remember it well. I thought she was innocent then and I still do.

Cam2020 · 20/11/2021 00:05

People seem to be forgetting the almost slave labour conditions in which she was living. Those parents came across badly and as abusive (to her) IMO.

Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 20/11/2021 00:12

@AliceAldridge

From Wikipedia:

Patrick Barnes, a paediatric radiologist at Stanford University, was a key prosecution witness in the trial, but in 2011, said he would not give the same testimony today. He said there had been a revolution in the understanding of head injuries in the past decade, partly due to advances in MRI brain scanning technology: "We started realizing there were a number of medical conditions that can affect a baby's brain and look like the findings that we used to attribute to shaken baby syndrome or child abuse",[26] such as infections and in utero strokes

This. It’s perfectly possible that it was just a tragic death with no one to blame.

AliceAldridge · 20/11/2021 00:16

I do the nervous smiling thing. At my DF's funeral I was weirdly cheerful. Clearly I did not feel it. It got me through a stressful day. It may be a British thing.

The miscommunication was ridiculous. As soon as someone pointed out that 'popped' means 'lightly put' in the UK it should have been the end of it.

Pallisers · 20/11/2021 03:22

People seem to be forgetting the almost slave labour conditions in which she was living. Those parents came across badly and as abusive (to her) IMO.

This is so so offensive. Do you actually know what slave labour was?????

I wish I hadn't seen this thread. But to summarise:

The parents (and let's face it you lot and everyone else really meant the mother) were negligent people farming out their children to inadequate childcare so

the inadequate au pair killed the baby but it was really the parents fault for employing her.

the au pair didn't do it but the parents were somehow still to blame for hiring her in the first place.

Logic where are you?

If you post on MN worrying about an 18 year old having a baby you will have a pile-on of posters saying 18 is an adult and they had their first at 16 (and went on to get a phd) etc. But this....

Awful awful thread. This was a real baby who died and a real mother and father whose baby died

Cam2020 · 20/11/2021 07:24

Logic where are you?

Well, it's certainly not employing a naive young girl with zero qualifications to look after two very small children is it?

sashh · 20/11/2021 08:00

I think there are a few issues.

I do the nervous smile / laugh, I can't help it. I think it might be a northern thing.

The CSF fluid taken from Matthew wasn't clear, indicating it wasn't a fresh injury.

The mother actually examined Matthew as a medical professional, which is not ideal.

Not long after the trial there was a programme about other au pairs on the same or similar scheme.

What some of the parents expected from a teenager on what was marketed as a working holiday was incredible.

So were their attitudes to the au pairs, one was driving when a deer ran out and in to the car, so, although the parents said it wasn't the au pair's fault they still docked the cost from her 'wage'.

Another said how she was so good because she had taken the au pair to the Dr and hadn't called her parents for payment.

As for appealing, she did, that's what allowed the judge to change the verdict to involuntary manslaughter and her sentence to time served.