The "ghastly sexism" of Cbeebies - Viv Groskop, Guardian

[HairyToe]

www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2203876,00.html

Interesting - so what does everyone else think?

I saw this and was a bit bemused - but then I have two boys so tend to watch it through their eyes, I suppose. I had previously thought it odd that there is no female lead character along the lines of Bob The Builder/Lunar Jim/Finlay the Fire Engine et al.

It was a little depressing when the CBeebies guy said that they now (after deliberately targeting the channel at boys) have an almost equally split audience in terms of sex. It makes me think that the phenomenon seen in book-buying habits in later life (men rarely if ever buy fiction by women, women are happy to buy fiction by authors of either sex) must kick in early.

sorry if i sound shallow but gender distinction & feminism is not top of a fouryr olds mind.
dd loves cbeebies and will not sit through programs on any other channels. she loves night garden, 'u.daisy' is her fav. character (dp finds ud & igle piggles relationship abit romantic) and it is now an essential part of getting her to bed, thank god it's saved the bedtime tantrums.

sorry, i think i missed the point slightly.

I generally agree, and always found Dora the Explorer refreshing for that reason. Felt it was good for DS to watch a girl having adventures and not preening and simpering around.

And I've recently found him watching Bratz Babies

i agree with a lot of this. Bloody Tweenies have always infuriated me with their silly girlie twirliness! Girls can do far more than they are shown doing on cbeebies and it's never too young to start giving them positive role models

Have only skim read it but she's almost certainly right, sadly.

Charlie and Lola is great
In the night garden is great - and sort of gender neutral.
Also Lucy in 64 Zoo Lane

DD gravitates towards programmes with lead girls...

What about Nina and her Neurons?

Balamory is full of female characters. Not to mention the Darwin award winning male ones.

I suppose overall it is male dominated but a lot of them are quite well balanced, The Tweenies, Me Too, Numberjacks. Also an awful lot of them I find to be non-gender specific.

Just wrote a long post and lost it - can't really be bothered to do it again.
Yes, Dora is the only female role model on British TV and can it be true a Guardian writer has admitted her children watch (quite a lot) Cbeebies?

I found the article interesting as it covers a few ideas I'd thought about before. DD1 wasn't 'girly' at all when she was younger, but by the time she hit three our world suddenly went pink and sparkly. I can't pretend I consciously did anything to discourage this but I'm pretty sure I didn't encourage it either. I'm not sure whether the 'transformation' was as a result of television, friends or other outside influences but now she's all skirts and princess dresses and 'do I look pretty'. I would like to see a few more feisty female characters on Cbeebies. Policewoman Poppy? Doctor Daisy?

hmmm, don't know what I think and too tired to think much just now.

But the point about boys being far more drawn to a male main character in a book whereas girls happily accept either rang true.

There must be exceptions though. Pullman's trilogy springs to mind as a good female lead.

how about Peppa Pig and Fifi? They're both pretty feisty I reckon

OMG the reason Charlie is more articulate than Lola is that he's several years older than her.

I can't read any further. It's too preposterous.

Although my dd bemoans the lack of decent female characters on telly and in films it has to be said.

Plu ca change.

I am not sure what the point of all that is. All the animation is boy orientated but as one of the contributors said boys prefer animation and girls prefer the more real life stuff.

The article seemed to focus on the animiation although it did mention the other types of programming in the end but what about Edie McCredy, or Dr Juno in Me Too. They aren't typical girlies and there is no mention of pink by either of them. And then there is my personal favourite Auntie Mabel. She flies a plane, goes down sewers and looks around factories. Surely she is a good role model for girls.

I have to say I disagree with the writer on the roles of Penny in Fireman Sam and the lady train driver in Underground Ernie. Penny is by far the most sensible of the firefighters and she is the mechanic of the fire engine.

It depends on you view. If you want to see Cbeebies as being sexist then I suppose that is how you will see it but I think there are enough role models for everybody - females who can cope in a man's world and males in touch with their feminine side.

Like Dora the Explorer Peppa Pig and Fifi Forgetmenot are not shown on Cbeebies. Seems commercial stations, who are heavily dependent on advertisers revenue, have less problems with strong female leads than the BBC?

I don't see Upsy Daisy as a simpering geisha. She's quite feisty - all that noisy singing, getting annoyed when other people sleep in her bed, and generally bossing the dimwit Iggle Piggle around. Even the way she physically galumphs about the place is quite tomboyish, I think.

And who's to say one of the Tombliboos isn't female?

Bella and Fizz can bugger right off, though. In fact all the Tweenies can.

Seriously though, the only thing I found interesting in the article is the explanation for why there are suddenly three male presenters to one female. Everything in the world boils down to marketing, doesn't it?

oo yes, aunty mabel were reet good.

Also, Max in tweenies was a good example of an older man doing childcare I thought. And the youngish spinster woman (what's her name?), she was good. Judy - that's it.

Bring back the oldies like Penny Crayon etc. I grew up a perfectly happy tomboy and have since turned out to be a brilliant, level-headed mummy to my son (even if I do say so myself). Now I can't wait to have a daughter and encourage her to try everything, whatever makes her happy will make me happy. I am really strongly against parents forcing pink and barbies etc on their young daughters from a very young age. My brother and his partner did it with my neice. She wore nothing but pink every single day (and at night time), her bedroom was pink and for b-days and xmas etc she only ever got every single barbie that was going. It made me so mad. If boys want to play with dolls and play dress-up in sparkly shoes, and girls want to roll around in the mud picking worms out and playing with sticks etc, why shouldnt they?! Thats how they learn to be themselves. I was the baby in our family with 2 old brothers, so it came almost naturally to me to dress like a boy, listen to boyish music, watch boyish films and play boyish games, (i even went fishing with my dad when I was 9) but I really strongly believe that its made me a far more leavel headed and well established person, because as I grew older (puberty kind of age) I soon discovered myself more and became 'womanly' but certainly bypassed 'girly' all together, and don't feel deprived of it what so ever.

What's the problem with pink

Just asking...

nothing really, it's just stereo-typical i suppose

yes, but Aunty Mabel is a terrible role model on the green front.

I mean, did she really need to fly her private plance down to the local shops to buy wellies the other week? .

On the whole, I agreed with the Guardian article.

Bella and Fizz should be exterminated.

Every child is supposed to choose pink as their favourite colour until they reach the age when they realise its a girl colour.

Also baby boys were dressed in blue because it was superstitiously thought to protect them. Obviously no need to protect girls so they wore the favourite colour pink.

Having said that I hate the pink one in lazytown and Sarah Jane should be banned on the grounds that she is a bad role model - too thin too blond too childlike. Bring back Sue who looked normal.
Justin is excellent though

Wendy does boss Bob around though and sometimes saves him. And Firewoman Penny rescued Norman from a tree and also chainsawed the tunnel door to get Sam and co out. She is a pretty good role model
But I would get rid of Bella and Fizz

Does anybody ever wonder whether we know way too much about Cbeebies storylines than is good for us?

i'm still mourning the lack of children's itv programmes being made. they had the best shows.

i'm so sick of spongebob argh