Inside the Bruderhof

[CleverCatty]

This was on last week but only a 30 minute programme.

I felt it seemed very short and a bit sneery by some of the Bruderhof teenagers who had 'decided to live outside Bruderhof world for a year', they seemed to think you had no life if you didn't live like they did.

The men seemed nice to a certain degree but one who left the Bruderhof and returned seemed to be very much into fishing, riding bikes in countryside and 'work' in the Bruderhof community. Seemed to me very much a way of opting out of normal life with mortgage, savings, ambitions etc.

Anyone else see it?

@felineflutter

What struck me most was how slow and somehow flat they all were. The only time the girl looked genuinely happy was when she was playing computer games with the young lad. Also the nine year olds seemed far more dynamic.

well they were seemingly happy doing chores and singing - but you did think - what else are they allowed to do in their own time? their own arts etc or is it all for sale - like the toys?

@Sailingblue

I did think cult to be honest. I completely agree with Mixingitall and I sat there wondering why on earth they had chosen to place them in Peckham with minders. It was like they took them from a rural ideal and just chucked them somewhere completely different with no preparation but also a lack of true freedom. I’d have been more impressed with their year out if they’d encouraged the young people to get qualifications, go to university and then decide. I’d love to know what they’re taught in the school.

to me is seems like a cult. Though they deny this.

I went to school at age 12 with 2 Plymouth Brethen girls - both were really nice - there was one strangely enough who was bought a more fashionable and shorter dress than her friend and her friend was quite emotional - well spoke her mind etc whereas her friend seemed to toe the line more. They stayed for 2 years then left. Weren't allowed to socialise. Nice girls but hope they are ok.

Just catching up with this. I agree with a PP who said it all feels a bit flat and sad. It doesn't seem to be very joyful.

I'm comparing to orders of enclosed Nuns, who have a similar lifestyle. But they are all joyful and seem full of life and look radiant. These people don't.

@Mixingitall dp and I said exactly the same about the Peckham placement. So extreme and how is that in any way a representative example of life in modern Britain

Part of me wants to go and join them. I'm so so tired of thinking and doing and being responsible for everything (single parent with current anxiety and depression). The idea of eating what I'm told when I'm told etc etc sounds so nice.

Then I cop on to myself and remember how much I would hate to be controlled like that! Plus I'm not sure I'd fit their Christian ideals

I think that's the point of a cult. You just give up personal responsibility and do as you're told - ie, not much.

I watched this last week and it definitely looks more like a cult than anything else , on further reading there seems to be a quite a few instances of people being told to move to a different Bruderhof site if their teenagers aren’t complying with the rules ie try to have a teen relationship . The sending them away for the year is clearly ridiculous as nothing really changes except the location .

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jul/23/just-dont-call-it-a-cult-the-strangely-alluring-world-of-the-bruderhof

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/16/i-was-abandoned-by-my-cult-experience

Maybe the idea of sending them to Peckham is so the madness of London does put them off the outside world, so they want to go back to the community. As a PP said, send them to Canterbury, and they might think differently s

This was slightly interesting.

Whilst I did think the man had a point about women's fashion, in order to keep things equal men's trousers should have been the kind of thing my Granddad used to wear - serge trousers, a shirt and braces, and a waistcoat. I watched closely and one of the young lads was wearing a pair of fashionable below knee shorts, like any ordinary boy would wear. The women should at least have moved onto knee length skirts. Or even jeans!

I admit to feeling that it would be nice to give up wordly things, and if I was Christian I feel like I would have become a nun.

I also think that the flash of a simpler life many of us experienced during lockdown tapped into something in a small way that the people who join places like Bruderhof have on a larger scale.

Whilst I did think the man had a point about women's fashion,

What was his point?

@Moranne

Whilst I did think the man had a point about women's fashion,

What was his point?

I think it was the competitive aspect of fashion, being more fashionable than other women, and spending time and money trying to look better. Which, of course, men are immune to .

I live close the Bruderhof community in East Sussex and visited with my daughters primary school.
I was put with and had lunch with one of the families.
I found it fascinating. The women told me one of the issues they face is the consequence of a very small genetic pool and this means that young adults move between the UK and the USA. But they have children and adults with learning difficulties as a result.
I also spoke with a much older women who was part of the original group who went to South america when she was a young child and lost her siblings to infection.
The good parts, the factory making school furniture and the involvement in all the community in it, no lonely elderly etc. The bad part, no self determination. You have to do as you are told. Communal food in a communal dining room apart from a few nights a week (When you can cook for your own family)
Other good bits are the good neighbour scheme where they work in local community.
I would not be the slightest bit surprised if there was a darker side to it

Sending that lass alone to London, to terrify her, and then not actually living in the real world, but with other sneering brain washed cult members, didn't feel fair. Why not send her to a small town or village, perhaps to do a year of college or something, dressed normally, mixing with normal teens? It was underhand. If they'd sent her to, yes, Canterbury, to do a year's course, and live with an evangelical Christian family, then she chose to return, I'd believe it was free choice. Making out she could choose between consumerist, secular, fast paced London, or what she'd only ever known, is wrong. If she was shown a Christian way of living with opportunities and equality, would she have returned to the constructions of the Bruderhof?

I also wonder who pulls the strings. Who is in charge, and who put them there? (And 100% the person in charge is male, obvs. Are there any women in leadership?)

What struck me was their perfect teeth! "Living in the past", yet obviously accessing modern dentistry!

The kids all knew what telly was. I couldn't work out whether they ever mix with normal children etc.

The man in charge clearly didn't like being asked why the women wore peasant clothes. And that poor worn down woman who said she understood now why the gender roles were needed, she sounded like an abuse victim.

It sounded idyllic for under twelves. But for teenagers, and especially women, so limiting.

I grew up in the area.

There were bruderhof teens at my sixth form college. Perfectly able to keep up with the rest of us so their school must be ok.

They were perfectly aware of the rest of the world, just not part of it.

Did they mix? Or stay apart? It's good they get to go to "normal" college. Was it both sexes?

I just wonder whether they see a way of Christian living outside the Bruderhof?

They mixed in lessons and library. Would eat lunch with people but always brought their own.

They didn't spend time with anyone outside of college.

Boys and girls, but only girls in my classes so didn't get to know the boys

I wondered how the girl in London got a job as a Youth worker, surely she wouldn't be and to connect very well with the youth? Completely agree with a PP about wether they realise that there are other ways to live your faith.

Faith should be a joyful thing and I didn't see much joy, especially among the women.

Re: fashion.

Women's clothing is in general less well made than men's and is less practical (pockets!). Women are encouraged to be fashion conscious and to follow trends more than men are. Not that men are immune, just that they aren't so bulldozed with the whole thing. You can add makeup and hair to that.

Keeping things simple is a decent enough idea, but I think the Bruderhof alternative is oppressive as, until women can blend as easily as the men can in outside society, it is unequal.

I wondered how the girl in London got a job as a Youth worker, It was pre arranged - a Christian outreach programme. Cant remember if I saw that on the documentary or read it with my googling!

The more fashionable clothes being less well made shouldn't be a problem as they make their own. They could make some different, equally 'modest' styles but I think the powers that be want to hide any signs of individuality or any notion of attractiveness that singles anyone out.

Who are the "powers that be"?

I want to see a Louis Theroux, then we'd get the insight.

With the clothes, it's another false dichotomy- fast sexualised fashion vs hideous peasant clothes. It's perfectly possible to make or buy quality, "modest", simple clothing that isn't ridiculously out of place in the modern world. Most of my Muslim friends manage fine.

If they want a uniform for the women, a choice of knee length skirt, culottes or trousers, plus a blouse, would be modest and fine. Why do they need to cover their ankles? Are all the men there sexual fiends who find ankles just too much?!!