Is any one watching Them school the school that tried to end racism’ C4?

[Carlottacoffee]

I’m really enjoying it and it’s well worth a watch. I’m recording it for dd (7) to watch tomorrow. Couple of heartbreaking scenes where children where struggling with their feelings or realisations and that some children already at odds with their identity.

I wish we had done something like this at school, the kids are fantastic for taking part

I’m watching it now. It’s definitely something that I’ll get DD (11) to watch.

A good watch IMHO.
Lovely kids, articulate and funny, with a lot of sensitivity between them - they spoke a lot of sense.

Very interesting programme. The kids were great.

Yes I watched it and it brought back bad memories of school.
I went to a London high school with lots of people from different races/ethic backgrounds. My best friend was Asian.
I am half European but look white (my fathers first language is not English)
I can totally understand why the white children were so wary about saying anything.
If you said even one thing wrong -wrong question etc you would be accused of racism and people would pick on you.
It must be even worse now with social media.
We learnt about Race relations in English, History, R.E etc

I remember going away on a residential trip and was put in a group with 3 girls. Two were dual heritage and one was black. They left me out the whole time saying I can't understand what it is like to be like them. They were convinced the whole of the Lake District were staring at them (they weren't).
I think if you tell people that you are disadvantaged in life you will start to believe it. In this programme questions at the end for the race demonstrated this.

If I had done the questions most of the answers would have applied to me and I would have been at the back. But then that would not have fit the narrative.

Overall I think the programme was good but I think it has to be careful that it doesn't create more of a division amongst pupils.

2020Rainbow That is a really interesting insight into your experience.

What struck me was the the BAME children had such a grasp of their culture where they came from and so on but the white children didn't seem to have any idea and were nearly ashamed of it. I think that is very sad and possibly part of the problem. There is a fear among some of the white communities about losing their identity and culture but they don't seem to know what that is? I am white Irish and I know if a similar experiment was done in our schools the white Irish children would have a very strong sense of their culture, identity, history and so on and because that is so strong they don't feel scared of losing it so other cultures coming in aren't a threat. Not sure if I am making sense but it really stood out to me.

I do hope there is good learning and closure on this because many of the students are really struggling with it and I would hate for them to be just left with more questions then answers

They were convinced the whole of the Lake District were staring at them (they weren't).

I'm not disputing that you didn't see people staring at them, but you wouldn't have noticed the looks they got.

People only notice what they want or are alert to.

Even recently I saw a student do something in the lab she swore she didn't do. Nothing much, just something she's not normally alert to or that she is careful about. I am. It was like a huge red flag to me and she didn't even realise she had done it.

Like most people don't notice everyday sexist until they become alert to it.

I'm not disputing that you didn't see people staring at them, but you wouldn't have noticed the looks they got.

That's very true, but it's also true that it's very very easy to misinterpret people's looks. People tend to look at school groups, especially if they're walking around with clipboards or in groups or things. I can certainly remembered school trips and noticing people looking over at us and I'm white. I worry now that some young BAME people are being told that any negative interactions they have must be because of race when we all have negative interactions.
I'm quite saddened by this whole thing really. Racism is truly awful but it's also awful that young white children feel as though there's something to be ashamed of in being white. I agree with Dulra in that we're being told that our heritage is shameful. I have always had some sympathy with those who talk about losing British cultural identity because it's seen as fine to be proud of your culture if you're from almost anywhere else! Why is it ok to be proud of being French or Italian but we can't talk about British culture? So many of us are descended from terrible poverty anyway, we're hardly all from slave owning families.
I saw some of the Twitter comments about the programme and there was a lot of stuff about how the white room was so quiet and the BAME room so fun and lots of Twitter users saying things along the line of - things are better when white people aren't around.
I suppose to sum up I just feel terribly sad that on the whole most people do their best to be good and considerate and I feel like everything is terribly divisive at the moment. I also find it frustrating that this is being framed as a white v black debate when racism is extremely complicated and lots is within BAME communities.

Why is it ok to be proud of being French or Italian but we can't talk about British culture?

It's OK to be proud when you're away from your country, but when you're in your own country that pride can have negative results. France and Italy don't have that much to teach to the UK in terms of culture acceptance, I don't think.

When people have experienced racism, it will be easier to feel attacked, not just by hearing about it.
Like if you've had a sexual assault of some sort, you're probably more likely to distrust men, regardless of what you are told.
Unfortunately, most black people seem to have had bad experiences in their lives, like most women.
It's not helpful to tell them you don't see it or that it doesn't happen.
White people who dismiss experiences or say it doesn't happen because they don't see it, or say "ok, but" are doing the same as men have been doing to women all this time.

Yes I found it patronising and annoying.

The nonsense about the white children not having any culture. The fair haired women watching and commentating was irritating

The children probably felt intimidated and uncomfortable and it wasn't balanced.

The 'race' was dreadful.

I thought that too @Dulra. My children go to a Catholic school in central London & it’s very multicultural. They do a Cultural Day every year & the children dress in their cultural dress or in something that represents their heritage. (No football strips). We’re white British, not Catholic (or religious) & really struggle with the outfits. There are Children with parents from African, Caribbean, Irish, South American, Asian & other European & Commonwealth Countries & they really go all out & are so proud of their national dress etc.
So far I’ve dressed them as hippies (my parents 70’s lifestyle), Morris Dancers & Suffragettes!

Haven’t watched it yet, was filmed at my son’s school.

@Dulra I thought exactly the same thing. When they asked to describe what it means to be white, I immediately realised that I don’t think of myself as white. I think of myself as Irish, and all the history and culture that goes with it.

I'm just watching part 2. It's a very interesting experiment!
I couldn't explain what it means to be white. Or what my culture is. (I'm white, British, CofE)

Just watching now. I've a few adults in my life who I think need to watch this. Coincidentally all middle aged white men who are certain that racism doesn't exist.

I thought it quite telling that the girl who was was half white British and half Sri Lankan ( she couldn’t say what colour that made her - she went with olive) ended up with the black group. I thought that was odd as she clearly wasn’t black and put out the message that anything less than white wouldn’t be accepted. Which isn’t accurate.
I think the problem is more that other ethnic groups do get accepted as the expense of Black Afro Caribbean’s.

Thought the programme was very interesting viewing. The kids cane across really well.
I think these sorts of sessions should be offered in all schools.

The groups were asked to divide by identity into white or black and Asian.
I think possibly Irish, Scottish and Welsh people would have a strong sense of their cultural identity. It’d be interesting to see this happen in those countries.

Horrified by some of the media around this programme - papers and tweets complaining about the white child who was in tears. No mention that by the end of the experience they all seemed to fee they had become better people for it, and were better able to feel proud of who they are. No mention of the Black children’s tears on recalling their experiences of institutional and systemic racism.

I thought it was a fascinating experiment. It would be good to watch the programmes with children in our schools.

It was interesting although I always feel sorry for the kids in these shows, just the thought of them looking back in 10 years time when they are adults.

What it highlights is the problem with lumping ‘BAME’ into one group, as the children said, their experiences and issues related to racism are often very different.

I thought it was a pretty good programme for schools to engage in. I do agree that there's a bit of a taboo for talking about race amongst your peers.

Very thought-provoking in terms of racial identity. I am white and was quite stuck for thinking about my cultural identity, objects to represent it etc.

So sad that Farrah didn't want to be brown When she was little and she thought it was prettier to be white

'does that mean Donald Trump is my brother?!'
Really made me laugh

agree with Dulra - I'm Welsh and it would be very easy for me to bring loads of things to represent that. I noticed the blonde psychologist mentioned that she associated, the English flag the one girl brought to represent her supporting England in the football, with BNP/hooligans etc. and thought that was really sad, as there aren't the same associations for the Welsh/Scottish flags, same with the idea of celebrating our patron saints days and so on.

I was also surprised that none of the white kids could think of any negative experiences they had had related to their race (note that was the question asked, not, "have you experienced racism." I had a similar discussion in my PSE lessons a few years ago and nearly all the white kids had a time they felt uncomfortable in 'black' areas, or had been called 'white slut' or similar or had been told that white girls were sluttier than other races and deserved to be raped if they went out alone/wore slutty clothes, didn't cover their hair, etc. One mentioned when she went to China and constantly had people pointing at her, taking photos of her, saying how huge her feet were, etc.

This could have led to an interesting discussion about the difference between people using your race to insult you, or being mean generally, and cultural/institutional racism. However I was a few years older (14/15) so perhaps that's why. Or perhaps some did have experiences and it was just editing.

Also surprised at the focus on the Harvard bias test which I thought had largely been discredited now.

Also thought it was interesting how the one black boy and his mother had such different experiences and expectations of the police - he felt scared of them, she was reassured by police presence etc.

However in fairness to the program makers they managed to find the some of the nicest kids in the UK! They were all really articulate and kind towards each other, without exception all really sweet.

Lweji the lake District gets hundreds of thousands of visitors from all around the world each year. A good majority of them aren't white, I'd be pretty surprised if any staring was going on tbh.

The stereotypical view of ' only white people ' visiting the lakes is absolute rubbish. It's a real mixed bag.

I enjoyed the programme but kept thinking of the parallels with misogyny. I hope someone does a School That Tried To End Sexism one day. Studies have shown that boys are biased against girls from a very very young age.

@Notomisogyny

They have already done that. It's called "No more boys and girls". Although it was with younger children, it's aims were to address sexism in schools.