Universal Credit: Inside the Welfare State

[purpleme12]

Anyone watch?
I would not want to be one of those people working at the job centre.
I'd feel so bad for the people and the homeless people

I watched this.

I've also examined policy surrounding UC since its inception in 2013.

UC was designed by IDS to address the 'work shy' nation. Parts of UC have some good elements about it and people are better off in work on the benefit. Aside from this, there's also the argument that the state shouldn't be picking up the tab for low levels of payment.

What the original consultation didn't do was invite the disability lobby into the consultation. They've made a vast mistake with this. It's why the DWP are consistently in court and why so many tribunals are overturning DWP decision makers.

I feel for job centre workers. They're the front line who get so much crap thrown at them.

But the bad policy around UC is that it is not designed for people who cannot work because of health reasons. It's such poor policy.

Moreover, UC was supposed to mimic work contracts. Paid monthly and it's beleaguered claimant commitment as a 'contract' what job does anybody know that stops a salary because someone hasn't turned up? Or subjects people to such levels of hardship under a sanction?

It's a very interesting programme.

What's residency test?
Why did that woman have to do one if she's lived here since she was a child? I'm not sure how it works

I can't believe people have to go in for a 10 minute appointment each day. Send like a waste of time to me

The habitual residency test is to prove you intend to make the UK your home and are not just coming here to claim. You also have to prove Right To Reside for benefit purposes. This claimant was an EU national and without permanent residency or the new EU settled status she has no rights to benefits. To get Permanent residency you had to prove you had been exercising your treaty rights as an EEA national. The EU settled status is much easier.
She came to the UK as a child and the only way she could get this was as a family member through her parents. There was an issue with her fathers status but the decision makers used their discretion and granted her RTR.

She was pregnant. She hadn’t worked enough to get statutory maternity pay or maternity allowance. It’s very complicated and most people at the job centre don’t understand the rules.

I have just watched the latest episode, it is really hard to know how to feel about advances.

It is a huge temptation to blow it then end up with very little to live on. In an ideal world people would take the advance and spend as little of it as possible until their first real payment comes in so they can use the advance towards the deduction but a lot of people can't handle the temptation to spend and sometimes life wipes you out.

I really felt for the young girl who was attacked, her anxiety and the fact that the job was a zero hour contract (is that what they are called?). So she was in hospital so wasn't paid. I don't know how anyone on their own can live like that, I suppose my job is similar. I am employed when someone is off on hols/sick and would get no sick/holiday pay, though I do get universal credit pay towards my rent but of course the amount differs depending on what I earn.

You're right, it really doesn't seem to work well for those on zero hours or varying hours at all, I'm no sure what the answer is there unless maybe the UC could be arranged to pay 1 week after wages each month so there is time for the adjustment to be done in the same month.

I am confused
I thought that for example if my wage went in at the end of the month (and my wage fluctuates a bit due to bonus) then I know it goes to universal credit and they would pay me more or less depending on what I've earnt that month?
But so when would that payment be made to me? Cos I thought it was at the same time
But in the programme they seemed to be saying to that girl that she'd get her updated universal credit payment the month after which implies she's got nothing to live on this month? Have I got that right??

I watched them all yesterday evening.

I felt like the woman from Bolton was thrown in to get all of the benefit bashers talking. She couldn’t hide her delight at the thought of this advance being in her bank, and her eyes lit up at the amount being in her account. The BBC filming her saying she spent it on hair, clothes, a new phone was very much poverty porn playing to the culture that people on benefits are workshy.

The simple fact is these people don’t have savings or money stashed away to last them the five week claim period. I don’t understand why they don’t do an online form, it is judged and paid within a few days and monthly thereafter. I’m all for bettering peoples life skills and them learning to budget and pay their way but the whole advance them thousands they have to pay back leaving them struggling for a year is ridiculous. Send them to financial classes, not play with their homes and lives with these advances which are 100% counterproductive.

It needs desperately looking at again. The five week claim period simply doesn’t work and people are suffering and paying with their lives for it. It’s designed by middle class people with zero knowledge of what it’s like to be a claimant and that shines through, the programme didn’t even touch on disabilities and the wait times or PIP.

Why did they decide to go this 5 weeks without any money?

I don’t know.

I don’t understand why it takes five weeks for them to be paid their first payment. If they input details into a computer system it should give an instant decision unless further information is required.

From what I know, the five week wait was to get people to budget and manage money. But how can they manage money if they don’t have any to manage?! It’s all a mess, and these advance loans are the devil in disguise. UC means claimants pay their rent direct and some just can’t be trusted to do that, it really is a poisoned chalice.

There’s no way the woman from Bolton would have passed the affordability checks for the loan of £1,300 (ish) advance she got to be paid back within the time period she had. Surely this goes against lending rules

The 5 weeks wait

First week you don’t get anything, it’s just punishment

The next 4 weeks you are waiting for your money, jyst like you’d be waiting for your first pay packet at a new job. So emulating a job contract and wages in arrears

If you’ve been on housing benefit, you’ll get a two week run one, so only 3 weeks gap for the housing element

Oh is that what it's supposed to be? Mmmm

I don’t understand why it takes five weeks for them to be paid their first payment.

It's supposed to mimic work. But considering most of the new claimants are migrating from other benefits (often paid fortnightly) due to a change in circumstance and so won't have any funds to keep them going, it's creating unnecessary debt.

It takes a certain type of person to work in a job centre. I personally couldn't do it. I care about people.

It's supposed to mimic work. But considering most of the new claimants are migrating from other benefits (often paid fortnightly) due to a change in circumstance and so won't have any funds to keep them going, it's creating unnecessary debt.

But they're forgetting that most people entering a new job have most likely left another role and have savings or money to tide them over until their next pay packet.

I changed jobs recently and still have to wait until next Friday to be paid but because I came from another job I have that money to tide me over - I agree not everyone will be in that place but most will be.

Agree with TheTruthAboutLove - financial classes need to be offered. Seemed like the job centre staff assume the claimants fully understand how repayments will affect their monthly UC and how long for. Also that they had minutes to decide on the spot what amount to opt for. Wave the offer of a £1,200 advance infront of anyone with pennies in the bank and of course they're tempted to take the full amount. Shame they can't sit with a financial advisor to list what outgoings are absolute necessities and only get an advance for what they require (which may be the full amount but at least its been a strategic decision rather than one made on the spot as part of a 10 min appointment). Even down to what to others may be 'obvious' financial advice - don't withdraw most of your money for the whole month from the ATM, a large amount of cash, heaven forbid that was pickpocketed or you lost it.

There are numerous issues with the design of UC: mostly (as mentioned by PP) the 5 week wait for money. Yes its meant to simulate earning wages but what about the people with zero savings to cover 5 whole weeks and nobody else to help them with money, food, laundry!?

All the claimants featured in this series had my sympathy. Paula from Bolton was certainly in a rut but I was rooting for her and her partner to have a bit more determination to plan for the future. Cut down on the fags (costing them £100+/month), don't light up a joint in the middle of the bloody high street, make a plan to see yourselves back in employment within a year, do it for your daughter who came across as a bright, confident girl and who is a credit to you.

The other thing I don't 'get' about it is the whole if your pay date falls on a Sunday with your salary and you receive it on the Friday it means your UC is so messed up that you don't get any money the following month as it believes you've had two payments.

I cannot believe with the IT infrastructure in the UK that this is a problem and systems cannot work with and help in this sort of circumstance. They were stupid to launch a system that doesn't actually work and has so many faults and variables with it. Middle class people making systems for other middle class people with no regard for how the poor cope with no food, heating or laundry for five weeks.

I also question the giving rent money directly to the claimant to be ridiculous. This government is all about education but it's not financially educating people before putting thousands in their bank and making them make the decision to spend it or not. These people need this financial assistance as they can't make their own decisions. I feel so sorry for them. The poor girl who was raped desperately wanted to work and UC punished her for doing so.

"I also question the giving rent money directly to the claimant to be ridiculous."

Did I hear rightly that in the most recent episode one of the deductions the family with the advance had was direct to their landlord? It seems like in that case the rent was paid direct unless that was for a previous debt.

If I remember correct Motacilla from that episode you can opt for some of the advance to go straight to the landlord, but the default would be to go straight to the claimant to then sort their own rent payment. I guess if you owe rent you may aswell try and clear it as quickly as possible.

Much of the format of UC seems to be about empowering people to manage their own money - which is fine, but if someone is heavily in rent arrears / owes council tax from 2017 still (like one of the people featured in this week's episodes) possibly they should be flagged on the system as requiring more financial education before being given direct rein over their whole amount. It sounds autocratic but a credit card lender or mortgage lender wouldn't lend to someone with a poor/no credit rating - you need to work up the proof you can manage money well. But, saying this, there's no option (from what I can see) for claimants to ask for extra financial education from their work coaches/other partner organisations!

@Luckystar777 Did you watch the programme? People who work in jobcentres are no different to anyone else. And many are on UC

From what I know, the five week wait was to get people to budget and manage money. But how can they manage money if they don’t have any to manage?!
Yes, this is what pisses me off. It's so 'undeserving poor'; heavy-handed state disapproval (I'm sure there's an actual term for this, I just can't think of it –not patriarchal but something...).

I assume the 5 week is to make it more difficult to just turn to UC if you have the ability to get a job. finding a job (probably min wage/zero hours might be a lot easier and less hassle than signing on for UC?
The lovely lady with two children in episode 2 I think said as much.

The problem is some people are just unemployable and/or have got themselves into financial difficulties, there seems no proper support for these people?
The former labourer who ended up homeless and going to a food bank was in a hopeless situation, and forced to think about turning to crime/cash in hand work IMO - how does that help society - plus treating him like shit?

The reason for the delay is that UC is based on your income for the last month, then a week to process it. It is a system that doesn't work well when you have a fluctuating income from month to month.