His Dark Materials

[AllGoodDogs]

New BBC adaptation, looks so good, can't wait trailer here -

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162256439035553&id=683285552&sfnsn=mo

Neverwhere was TV first though, the book fleshed the story out and gave more detail. This feels a bit more like someone thought they knew better than Pullman about how to reveal the twists and turns of his story. I hope it doesn't lose its magic completely.

In the interview with Pullman on 'Obsessed With' he did emphasise that he doesn't really get involved with the adaptations and is perfectly fine with the directors' interpretations (theatre/film) I would be very interested to know how he actually feels about the inclusion of bits from the other books so early on.

I'm really enjoying it so far but am trying tk treat it separately to the books. I actually think the Gyptians are pretty close to how I imagined, except for Ma Costa being skinny but I can deal with that! There seemed to be more daemons visible this time, although I think I was purposely looking for them this week, and I like how they introduced the importance of them a bit more for the non book readers.

SPOILER ahead from episode 2

The decision to name Asriel as her father now seemed odd though as I'm sure it's later in the book?

@IamPickleRick No, you’re right. There’s Asriel sweating away for new worlds and ole Boreal’s been doing the equivalent of an occasional booze cruise to stock up on Nespresso for yonks.

Btw, is this a spoiler free thread re those of us who have read the books? I’ve been and read a few threads now where people have been mightily offended about spoilers.

I wasn't sure on the spoiler aspects, it's difficult not to reference things!

Wouldn’t it be rather difficult to have any sort of in-depth discussion of the adaptation compared to the original if we have to remember exactly what’s been shown only on TV?

Also I’m on at least one other thread talking, with spoilers, about the new books. I’ll just get confused. (Hard enough juggling the main (strictly non-spoiler) and subsidiary (exists for spoilers) The Archers threads!)

I've tried ep1 with my 8yo this evening and he was really interested. Lots of questions! Lots of "keep watching and you'll find out" and "that's the mystery" in reply. Trying to explain dæmons was interesting... I described it like the voice in your head, my 6yo knew exactly what I meant!

Interesting to see The Subtle Knife being woven in, but there's history that would overlap with the timeline of Northern Lights so there is a logic there. I was surprised to see Lord Boreal introduced in ep1 as I was only expecting the fleeting encounter at the party. It is telling that it is His Dark Materials rather than the book names, bonus points for being easily transferred to the USA where it was The Golden Compass.

I'm really enjoying it. I reconciled myself to book adaptions getting mangled around many years ago. I liked the casting of the previous film, but the plot was too simplified and mangled. I think I only ever saw it at the cinema.

I know the original trilogy pretty thoroughly. I'm a read every couple of years type for favourites. I haven't read the prequels yet.

It is tough discussing an adaption of a well-known, long-published book without referencing it. The Handmaid's Tale's threads can struggle with that. I'm sure there is some time lapse on what constitutes as a spoiler or not.

Mind you, at Remembrance service today, I was a little at some Harry Potter spoilers going on in the sermon when many of the younger Scouting and Guiding members present won't have had chance to get that far yet

Is there any Scholar on this thread who doesn't mind writing an essay on how His Dark Materials references Paradise Lost?
I'd love to know

The programme on BBC4 last week explained some of Pullman’s fascination with Paradise Lost. Might still be on iPlayer.

Cant get iplayer here in Ireland, but it might be available elsewhere - thanks, I'll have a look.

I was quite disappointed last night. There was just no need to reveal the other worlds so early on. Also I really felt the absence of the Daemons last night. The scenes with the gobbler children, Gyptians, and the party seemed so empty.

I missed John Parry in episode 2 - where did he pop up?

And who was ‘Thomas’ in our Oxford?

Captain he goes by another name. We've not actually heard him called John Parry on tv.

Yes, not enough money spent on CGI for daemons.

Yes, and did you hear Boreal’s pointed ‘we don’t show our daemons all the time’, which appeared to be aimed squarely at this thread!

The daemons (especially the children's) aren't acting how I'd expect them to either. For example after the fight with the monkey, and the revelation that Asriel is her father, I'd have expected Pan to be as close to her as possible, so they were comforting each other, not just sitting by the sofa!

The daemons (especially the children's) aren't acting how I'd expect them to either

It's not just the Daemons acting strangely. The children aren't exactly acting normally. Take the gobbler scenes, apart from Billy asking for his mum, the children seems strangely calm about being kidnapped and held hostage.

There’s Asriel sweating away for new worlds and ole Boreal’s been doing the equivalent of an occasional booze cruise to stock up on Nespresso for yonks.

I’m OK with the Borial nipping to our world for coffee and looking for John Parry (aka Stanislaus Grauman?) as it fits with the timeline in the books (if not the reveal). And Asriel doesn’t know about the existing window(s) into the other world(s), so makes sense that he’s toiling away.

Water I think the children are calm because the vast majority are kids nobody will miss. In the books they are kept fed and warm which is a novelty for them, they have nowhere else to go.

the vast majority are kids nobody will miss. In the books they are kept fed and warm

I agree it works in the books. However the TV series seems to imply that these are mostly Gyptian children, apart from Roger, so their reactions seem at odds with the situation.

I'd have expected Pan to be as close to her as possible, so they were comforting each other, not just sitting by the sofa!

That was really jarring to me to!

I have no problems with adaptations, but that seemed flat wrong.

I'm fine with the actress, but this Lyra is quite weepy and uncertain. I'd have liked to see her swept up by Mrs Coulter properly for a while than immediately being suspicious - like the images of the cutting machine, it's a far bigger shock to see it later.

(the daemon relationship remains one of the most effective and impactful pieces of writing I ever read as a child - I was TERRIFIED during the Bolvangor scenes, and finding out what happened to Tony Makarios!)

It's been too long since I've read the books to remember the details (and I remember being very confused at the time, particularly by the end, of what was happening!), so I can't quite remember what the deal with the daemons is. I know that if they feel pain, the owner does, like in the fight last night. So when the journalist's butterfly (I think) was squashed - does she actually die then, or just become some sort of soul-less, conscience-less, person?

Mrs Coulter seems to be able to control her daemon - making him attack Pan, for example, whereas Lyra doesn't have that sort of control over Pan, who is more independent.

If you kill someone's daemon, they die. So yes, he killed the journalist although I didn't think they made that totally clear.

I don't think Mrs Coulter controls her daemon per se, he's just absolutely vile and well up for attacking another daemon when given the nod.

Also agree with others that Lyra didn't seem quite as taken with Mrs Coulter as she should have. I find it difficult to judge though when I'm watching it already knowing how all the characters pan out, maybe things seem different to those who haven't read the books.