His Dark Materials

[AllGoodDogs]

New BBC adaptation, looks so good, can't wait trailer here -

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162256439035553&id=683285552&sfnsn=mo

@unihorn I always imagined daemons gradually appeared as a child became aware of other people, since their form isn't fixed until puberty.

DS1 and I have only watched half because I told him to hurry his shower, thinking he'd take max 15 minutes - he decided he needed a poo and took an hour and then DS2 woke up halfway through. So the rest is tomorrow.

I am enjoying it so far. I agree the servants should have just had dogs. Random extras also could have had the occasional flash of something around them, a stuffed animal peeking from a pocket or draped around a neck, etc. Not difficult to find show dogs, no need for CGI even and it would have helped. But I expect there will be a scene in a future episode where the idea that a person without their daemon is a horrific prospect is explained, and I can get around that I think.

I really like the casting of Lyra although I agree some lines felt wooden and especially that "ain't". I don't think it's too out of place and I agree the mixture of the privileged scholars and the servants would give her a strange accent. I didn't find her as clipped and polished as the film Lyra who I didn't warm to at all.

I always got the impression that daemons mainly only talk to their human, and while they can speak to other people and other daemons, they prefer not to unless it's necessary.

I've just read the trilogy for the third time, and I must say I was a bit disappointed with the casting, which I found much better in the film. The Gyptians did indeed put me in mind of East Enders, again was better portrayed in the film.

Yeah, not sure about casting, esp Asriel.

SleepingStandingUp - some of us don’t even own a TV! (I watch so little it would be pointless. Used to rely on iplayer, now just buy episodes from iTunes.)

I take the point about unreliable WIFI.

Very curious as to why some of you clearly feel the Gyptians, as portrayed in this series, couldn’t possibly be a cohesive community with a shared traditional culture ...

Ma Costa has a roughly 10 year old son. Pam Ferris would be way too old to play her. Anne Marie Duff is 49, much better fit agewise.

I'm not sure may give it a try

Anyone else motive how much James McAvoy acts with his teeth?! DH and I came out with it at the same time - it's like his favourite acting accessory

*notice not motive

I read the books but over ten years ago and I read fast and then forget pretty much everything! I remembered the very central characters and the daemons and something to do with children being taken but that’s about it. As I watched things came back to me, but I’d misremembered Asriel as Lyra’s father not uncle.

DP has not read them. He forgets to wear his glasses so I doubt he could read the explanatory text at the beginning, but overall seemed to follow it ok. He kept calling the daemons ‘pets’ though and asked ‘where is everyone else’s pet then in they’ve all got one?’

I read that James McAvoy was a very last minute casting as the person originally cast walked out. I think he had the call on the Friday to start filming on the Monday but said he could do it as he knew the books inside out and had a very clear vision for the character. I don’t know who was originally cast though. I like James McAvoy a lot but he’s one of those actors I tend to see him more than the character so I’m thinking ‘oh there’s James McAvoy in his airship, shame he split up with the other one from shameless, oh look she’s in it too - wonder if that was awkward’ not ‘here comes Lord Asriel’. Hopefully that will die down as the series progresses.

Not sure about Ruth Wilson yet. I never watched the film but Nicole Kidman is definitely closer to my image of the character.

DP wants to carry on with it which is rare - he usually decides he can’t be bothered with anything that doesn’t focus on WW2 (not EVERYTHING has to be about Hitler DP!) so even though I was slightly ‘meh’ about it, I’m looking forward to actually watching something together.

I like casting of anne marie duff as Ma Costa.

Agree with a PP that Richard Armitage would’ve been fab for asriel, but perhaps too old relative to Ruth Wilson?

Roger as played by the young actor is v much like one of my nephews

dd and I wanted Rufus Sewell to play Lord Asriel but he is our first choice for pretty much any role, mostly we want him to play the Chrestomanci, should anyone ever make an adapation of the Chrestomanci books.

The problem with Lyra and Roger, which I described as looking ‘too secure’ is that nothing in the way they were presented, not clothes, body language, facial expression, gave any adequate indication of their place in the world or relative positions. Only the dialogue was employed to tell us who and what they were.

Seriously they could have plucked Mary and Dickson from any late 20th century expensively made Secret Garden TV series and I wouldn’t have known the difference. I do wish they had given some thought to making these children distinct from any other fictional children ...

It is rather cool that PP admits the things he doesn’t know, rather than trying to invent ‘facts’. I’m happy to imagine that daemons first arrive as the tiniest flutteriest insects, flitting around the new born child, and only gradually becomes recognisably attached as the child’s brain/soul develops and the daemon takes more and more solid forms ...

(Damned illiterate phone! I definitely wrote ‘Dickon’)

while they can speak to other people and other daemons, they prefer not to unless it's necessary.

Just finished listening to the audiobook of the secret commonwealth. While daemons don’t tend to talk to other people, they converse very freely with other daemons.

AliasGrape at this point in the story, Lord Ariel is introduced as Lyra’s uncle. Any future revelations would be considered a spoiler.

Ooh yes Rufus Sewell would make a good Asriel! I can’t make my mind up about JM or RW yet. JM doesn’t come across as distant enough. In the books he is almost a stranger to Lyra as he is portrayed as being often away on expeditions. I certainly don’t remember him carrying her to her bed! I know Golden Compass was shit but I agree that the casting seems better in that. I did like Nicole Kidman as Mrs Coulter, I think she pretty much nailed it.

Funny how I imagined Ma Costa as being like Ma Larkin/Pam Ferris too, rather than Fiona Duff, who I usually love.. Pam is too old now sadly.

I did NOT like the Gyptian coming of age scene. Don’t remember that from the books, it came across as a very cliched scene. Major mistake as I don’t find anything cliched in the books.

Lin Manuel I’m not sure about yet, he doesn’t seem “cowboy” enough, which is how I imagine Lee Scoresby. But I read today that he is a massive massive fan of the books, so i’ll Let him off! . When he got together with his wife they read the books together so they remind him of falling in love, he said. Aaah....

I am dying to see if THAT scene with him and Hester will be as emotive as it is in the books. It proper got me.

Also looking forward to seeing Serafina. Only seen a still of the actress so far and she looks exactly as i’d Pictured her. So does Farder Corem.

I have such a clear picture in my mind of the worlds that it’s hard to watch when it veers off slightly. The Mulefa to me are part elephant, funny how others imagine them as being like other animals!

I agree about finding Lyra a bit too middleclass. She needs to be more urchin, as someone said. An educated and stubborn urchin. I found her a bit expressionless and vacant at times, I always imagined Lyra as drinking things in with her eyes and ears. I would have liked to see Dafna’s eyebrows raise a bit more, or a furrowed brow, or her eyes widening in excitement or fear. It’s almost like they told her “right, you need to act intelligent but try and be the opposite of over the top Emma Watson as Hermione”. Can’t stand Emma’s overacting in Harry Potter although she does learn to tone it down a bit.

I am keen to see how they’ll do the little Gallivespian spies. And Will. I already know Iorek will be amazing.

It had just better not all be a letdown, I am so keen for it all to be fab.

@KitchenDanceFloor my PhD supervisor (evangelical Christian and lay preacher) loved them - because they are brilliant books which tackle "big" themes (original sin, free will, good and evil, little venal sins versus the big ones, the fall) and are fantastic ripping yarns (nothing didactic about them).

Ultimately they're about The Fall - it's kind of an atheist take on Paradise Lost I guess. As a lapsed Christian, now agnostic, that was the one bit of the books I was disappointed by - I'd expected something much more subtle and complex at the end (you can't fault the ending for literary, emotional character driven oomf; I was just a bit disappointed by the lack of philosophical weight given the rest of the book). In that sense CS Lewis does a better job of wrestling with the fall in his adult sci fi novel Voyage to Venus. (No spoilers so won't go into more detail).

I love this adaptation. Yes, not enough demons, Ma Costa should be a bigger woman etc, but all round I think this is as good as TV can do it. (I hated the film).

Jury’s still out for me, need to see another episode. Loved the book.

12 yr old DD has just read Northern Lights, she is an average reader and loved the book, I think she understood a certain amount and let the bigger themes wash over her. She likes to pick daemons for herself and the family . She gave the tv episode 1 a thumbs up.

Not sure I agree with the casting of Lyra- but then I always found the character in the book profoundly annoying, so that might be all for the good.

Oh god, me too!

First thoughts - agree there weren’t enough daemons and the ones that there were, weren’t close enough to their people - it’s a massive plot point in Secret Commonwealth that daemons mostly can’t separate from their people easily. So it was really noticeable to me eg that Lord Asriel and Stelmaria weren’t always side by side.

Enjoyed the books and loved the film.
Daniel Craig and nic Kidman , Sam Elliott and Ian mckellen

Jury is still out on the tv series.

Oh god, me too!

I’m another one who found her quite irritating in the first books (less so in the Secret Commonwealth). I was discussing a few weeks ago with DS what a Mary Sue is in fiction. The first example I came up with was Lyra.

I quite liked the idea of portraying the gyptians as having a common way of life and set of beliefs rather than being of a certain ethnic group.

Also, agree re the book series being spoiled by the elephants on wheels. Just couldn't get into the last book. I’m enjoying the new trilogy much more.

I completely disagree that they book series was spoiled by the Mulefa. What I enjoyed most about the series was the interlinking of the 3 books and worlds in them, which is quite subtly done in terms of the interlinking, yet each book and world feels completely different. I was reminded of HDM when I read Cloud Atlas. I find the differences in the worlds and books exciting and fresh and not contrived.

Some people hated Cloud Atlas though and said it was all too contrived. Maybe I’m easy to please/not intellectual enough or something but I just enjoy all that.