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Gender neutral BBC2 program

16 replies

NewBallsPlease00 · 16/08/2017 22:04

Did anyone watch this?
I'm struggling with why some people are so up in arms about gender using of kids with stereotypes
The show is interesting and balanced but I suppose I don't understand why in the bigger picture it's an issue if girls wear the odd sparkly top of dress up as ana or elsa, likewise if boys want to wear pink that's fine too, but some people seem to be getting so get up over it, I genuinely don't understand as a mother I just buy what I it they like regardless?
Am I missing something?

OP posts:
TheWitchAndTrevor · 16/08/2017 22:08

I believe the clothes issue is next episode, so will probably explain better then the 30 second clip you just saw.

What did you think of this episode?

Whatshouldmyusernamebe · 16/08/2017 22:12

I thought this was great. So glad they addressed the teacher calling the children love. That was really winding me up. My 9 year old ended up watching it as she wasn't feeling well and couldn't sleep. Interesting to get her take on it. Realised she never defines herself by her looks or thinks about make up etc.

islandchatter · 16/08/2017 22:13

I think the problem comes when the possible preferences of children lead to huge disparities in adults. By the age of 7, children already seem to have a strong sense of what is okay for a boy and what is okay for a girl - and this will lead to them thinking that there are things that are okay for men and things that are okay for women.
We tell our children that they can grow up to be whatever they want to be - but then the facts tell us that simply by being a boy, they are more likely to end up in prison and by being a girl they are going to be paid less than a man doing the same job when they grow up. We 'train' our girls to be passive and to expect to take second place and we 'train' our boys to think they must not show emotions and that winning and money are more important than friendship and happiness.
It was an interesting programme - the experiment with the babies dressed in the 'wrong' clothes was particularly interesting and, I thought, showed how these differences are instigated by adults. Yes, girls may prefer princess dresses and pink and boys may prefer guns and super heroes it that actually inherent or actually an effect of the way they have been socially programmed?

HoneyIshrunktheBiscuit · 16/08/2017 22:14

I don't think the show is about saying 'girls can't like pink sparkly tops'.

The issue isn't necessarily about what they like but about if they are taught by society that they are not allowed to like what fits in to their gender stereotype. This issue is made worse when the gender stereotypes label one as weak and one as strong etc.

Whatshouldmyusernamebe · 16/08/2017 22:17

I'm.not upset if a girl wants to wear a pink sparkly top. I'm upset if she is wanting to wear because she thinks that's the only option she has and has been conditioned to only want to wear pink sparkly tops and also to think she is passive and weak.

orlantina · 16/08/2017 22:18

I was shocked by his classroom practice. How you address pupils and the issues around self confidence and the hidden curriculum should be standard practice. And a boys and girls cupboard?

But yes, you can see how messages get reinforced. And God knows how much people laugh at you when you try to explain this stuff.

Original poster
NewBallsPlease00 · 17/08/2017 00:12

It's mad isn't it!
The 'love' bit just seemed out of place anyway? I've only ever experienced teachers calling pupils by agreed name/nickname
The bit about the professions struck a chord with me in sense that it was about that is been exposed to as a child- not so much gender led as life experience, so for example as a child all the doctors in my life were male (I'm female) yet my children have probably an 80/20 female to male ratio,
Teachers have remainder female dominant (in my experience maybe not representative of profession)
But then the hair dressers- my kids have probably 70/30 men to women and so am going to do the exercise with my kids and see what they do out of interest.
The baby one was very adult led wasn't it! my youngest is at a nursery with a million things to play with, but my son will always go for a fire engine... ots just what he likes!

For me the message isn't so much gender as life stretching- show them what is out there not just in their circles and then life gets bigger and more diverse

OP posts:
SummerSazz · 17/08/2017 00:30

I think it just showed how ingrained human thinking is.

I have 2 Dd's and hope that something can change. I'll be rewatching it with them.

I have a career and earn more than DH. That's not important to me but I want to show then they are not limited.

A sobering watch.

SummerSazz · 17/08/2017 00:34

DH will think it's making a mountain out of a molehill which makes me even sadder tbh.

lily219 · 17/08/2017 07:06

Did YOU watch it?! The effects of treating girls and boys differently (and that includes far more than just dressing girls in pink and giving boys cars to play with) are damaging and dangerous; they effect the way children think about themselves and others and about their place in society.

Ekphrasis · 17/08/2017 07:59

This programme is hugely important if you are a parent or work with children.

The links to huge things in our society (pay gap, male violence and more men in prison, objectification of women, few women in STEM jobs) starting in young children (and it starts from the day they're born - all our congratulation cards were blue -) is enormously important. Sadly, as it's clear here, not everyone will 'get' it.

It's not a glittery top that's the issue, it's the fact that a boy isn't allowed to wear it.

lily219 · 17/08/2017 08:50

Thanks, Ekphrasis! I was beginning to think I'd watched a different programme... I'd also say that it's not even about clothes or who's allowed or expected to wear what; it's about our whole identity and where we fit in society. We're all conditioned from birth and that affects our whole life - and the way we treat the next generation in turn.

EvansOvalPies · 17/08/2017 13:11

I thought it was incredibly interesting. The part where they swapped the clothing of the baby girl and boy, then the adults were automatically offering the gender-specific toys.

And although the teacher, Mr Andre, was using gender-specific terms of endearment with the children, he did accept his error and took it on the chin, and is doing his best to change it. He is a lovely teacher and embracing the experiment wholeheartedly.

Hotheadedredhead37 · 17/08/2017 23:47

As a parent of one of the stars of the show,it has amazed us all how much the programme caused such a stir before it had aired but I guess with gender being in the title,a lot of people jumped 2 the wrong conclusion of what it is trying to show.It was a fantastic opportunity for our kids to be part of and wow has this programme opened up some pretty mad and heated discussions every where but we all hope most people can see the reasons its been made,to show how in this day and age,so much is still to do with the gender your are and the huge gaps in education,jobs,money etc between them,not anything about wanting to swap genders!and to all you positive peeps out there,thanks

zephr · 30/08/2017 19:25

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