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Wolf Hall

27 replies

babbityann · 26/02/2015 18:04

My goodness! What a comeuppance for the 'other woman'.
I loved it!

OP posts:
wowfudge · 26/02/2015 18:31

I thought Claire Foy's acting was great - it was horrible to watch knowing the outcome. Interesting to see Thomas Cromwell turn into someone he wouldn't have liked much a few years earlier, although he was avenging Cardinal Wolsey to an extent.

juliascurr · 26/02/2015 18:35

gruesome
their only value was to produce sons

susiedaisy · 26/02/2015 18:36

I loved it. I loved the dialogue, the music, the subtlety of the story, so much better than the Tudors which was all sex, Henry viii shouting and people being tortured until they confessed

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babbityann · 26/02/2015 18:39

Claire Foy was great, especially the way she bugged out her eyes to imiate 'the goggled eyes whore'.
Her execution was so well done, I could feel the tention/excitement.

OP posts:
diddl · 26/02/2015 19:58

It was fabulous, wasn't it.

Hard to believe that it's trueSad

So was any of what she was accused of true?

Was Cromwell just choosing who he wanted to die?

When he said to one of them something like "she won't go quietly & Henry wants a son/new wife", was there ever a chance that she could have been allowed to live peacefully somewhere?

In some ways it was hard to feel too sorry for her (apart from the gruesome death) as she was so horrible about Catherine of Aragon & Mary.

Yes when Henry embraced Cromwell at the end, I wonder what Cromwell was thinking?

that he was in league with the devil??!!

So do we think that Cromwell also deserved to die, when it happens?

Clawdy · 26/02/2015 22:22

There is a whole thread all about the series on the History Club page - I think most people have ended up discussing it on there!

diddl · 27/02/2015 06:44

Thanks!

Will take a look!

notsogoldenoldie · 27/02/2015 15:25

What are we going to do now it's over (apart from rush out to buy the dvd...).

diddl I was wondering this too. I recall there was a scene in which Henry says "what will happen to Anne" and it got me thinking about whether or not Henry actually wanted her dead. I'm also still confused about Mark Smeaton: did Anne really commit adultery with him (at some point in time)? I had the feeling he was only boasting, and I can't think of a reason why Cromwell would want him dead. The others-Boleyn and co- were the ones who'd disrespected Wolsey in their re-enactment. He needed to get revenge on them, and an adultery charge gave him an ideal opportunity.

There was also another man implicated-Thomas Wyatt-who had admitted to a relationship with Anne but, as he was on good terms with Cromwell he wasn't investigated (I think). This didn't come over in the programme.

I don't think Cromwell wanted Anne dead at all really, but it was going to be either her or him. Jane Rochford's gossipping gave him the ideal opportunity to get Anne out of the way, enabling him to promote Jane Seymour as the next wife. And thus further his own career, which hit its peak when Jane produced the heir. And went downhill when he failed to replace Jane with another satisfactory wife.

Can't wait for the next book.

susiedaisy · 27/02/2015 15:58

Notso I wonder the same. Do you think if Henry had several boys with Anne that he would of stayed married to her and even faithful?? He did say a king without an heir is nothing.

Cariad007 · 27/02/2015 16:04

I doubt he'd have stayed faithful (though then again Henry wasn't known to have a number of mistresses) but he certainly would've stayed married to her if she was the mother of an heir and a spare.

notsogoldenoldie · 27/02/2015 16:20

Yes, I agree he would have probably stayed married, if not faithful as such. Kings have always had mistresses and children by them. Henry himself had a boy by a mistress whom he acknowledged, but not as an heir. I don't think he would have been capable of much bedroom action either, particularly as he got older. There was a programme on youtube investigating his body (it was a bit silly, admittedly) but he had very bad legs, was corpulent, possibly brain-damaged through an accident and suffered terrible headaches. And, even in the programme, hints were made that he wasn't great in bedGrin.

What stands out for me is that Anne and H8's heir Elizabeth is probably one of the greatest monarchs. The irony!

Cariad007 · 27/02/2015 16:35

Henry is interesting in that he only has two known mistresses - Elizabeth Blount and Mary Boleyn.

notsogoldenoldie · 27/02/2015 16:56

Yes, Bessie Blount! Was the son Henry too? And wasn't there a rumour that Mary Boleyn had a son by H8 too?

Cariad007 · 27/02/2015 17:09

Yes, Bessie was the mother of Henry Fitzroy who died as a teenager. Mary Boleyn had two children but it seems unlikely that they were fathered by Henry.

notsogoldenoldie · 27/02/2015 17:25

Yes, I remember now. Isn't Fitzroy a kind of generic term for the b..rd son of a king?

Cariad007 · 27/02/2015 17:27

Fitz means son and roy means king so yes, literally "son of the king"!

hollyisalovelyname · 01/03/2015 10:30

If Henry supposedly said '...a king is nothing without an heir'
how come Elizabeth 1 didn't have children ?
There was such an emphasis before her and since to provide an 'heir and spare'

Cariad007 · 01/03/2015 19:02

Perhaps knowing of her mother's fate and seeing a stepmother have her head chopped off too put Elizabeth off the idea of marrying and having children?

climbing · 01/03/2015 19:08

There was no way elizabeth was going to let herself be used as a pawn for some European marriage alliance.

Even though she was queen, she was still female and it would have been her advisers who told her who to marry. She would have been parcelled of to some princeling same as anyone else.

There was no way she was going to go for that and of course she had the abysmal record of her father (and mother) to think about.

Mary was sold off to Philip of Spain for a miserable marriage, Queen or not.

hollyisalovelyname · 01/03/2015 19:41

But Elizabeth knew of the importance of having an heir.
Her not marrying has never been properly explained.

climbing · 01/03/2015 20:03

Apparently she was in love with Robert Dudley, but couldn't marry him.

Whatever she thought of having an heir couldn't have been that important, or she'd have had one.

Maybe she had medical reasons for thinking she couldn't produce one? A king can pick a new wife, but she is stuck with just the one womb, isn't she?

creighton · 02/03/2015 14:40

I think that she would not want a master who would rule her and try to rule her kingdom

hollyisalovelyname · 02/03/2015 16:43

creighton I don't think that would be reason enough as it was considered SO important to have an heir. And a male heir at that.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 11/03/2015 22:54

Between 10 and 30% of women died of childbirth fever . Both Jane Seymour and Catherine Parr did; CP was effectively Elizabeth's stepmother.

bunchoffives · 12/03/2015 00:16

Where's that from knickerfuil if you don't mind me asking. Not doubting, just curious.

As to the heir issue, Elizabeth used her marriageable status to successfully steer her way through European politics by setting up loose alliances and keeping her princely suitors 'onside' while she dangled the possibility of marriage before them.

The reality was if she had married she would have stripped herself of all her power. A woman had to obey and was subservient to her husband - even a queen. She was considered 'unnatural' as a female ruler initially but at the end of her reign less seems to be said about her female status. And she did name her cousin's son, James I of Scotland heir - but not until practically the last minute before her death.