Dr Who

[moggiek]

I know its Hallowe'een, but this is a wee bitty dark. Loving it, though.

Can't stand Danny Pink. Very annoying character. Love Clara though.

Was getting fed up with Clara and her love life being the main content of the stories, but I thought this was fab! I agree that it's poor for anyone who has lost someone recently though - we haven't, so didn't think of that last night, even though there have been enough family members cremated in the past for it to creep me out a bit. I had two 12 yos watching with me and I will just make sure they understand that it's a Story. I don't expect huge fallout with either of them.

What made it for me is that, at last, we have a respectable villainess playing the Master (well, Mistress) and why not? Brilliant! I've been saying for ages that it was about time the Doctor was black (I heard David Harewood was a contender at one point and those ears of his always look a bit alien to me, so I thought he'd do well) and/or a woman, but never considered the Master's new incarnation.

I loved the way all the clues to the dead being cyber men were dropped into the story. I'd forgotten that there were cybermen in the trailer so when I realised what they were, it was fabulous!

The whole cremation bit was just a ruse - the whole voices of the dead thing was a ruse in fact. It shouldn't cause any angst as it wasn't even true in the context of the story.

I think it's all a ruse, with the aim of getting someone to press the delete button (thus being upgraded to a cyberman) rather than progressing on to a 'real' afterlife.

I love dr who, but thought last night was truly truly horrific

I know it plays on people's fears, but it is meant to be a family show

Not cool Moffat, not cool!

This is the only episode of this series I Wont be watching for a second viewing.

Well, when I die, I want to be cremated!

also the bit with Danny killing the boy I thought was very insensitive.

and Missy being the master. yuk! I miss the early 2, Roger Delgado and Antony Ainly.

love Peter Capaldi to absolute bits though. Love the way he runs/scuttles, like a shuffling Matt Smith!

I've just watched it, I'm very annoyed by the Missy thing. It seemed too obvious an answer but it turned out to be correct. I really hope there's an explanation for why a male character is suddenly a female one, or it will open a whole can of worms about having a female Doctor, which would be unutterably shite pandering.

Spot on Captain !!!! agree completely.

There have been references to Time Lords being able to change gender at regeneration all the way back to Tom Baker, though (that was in one of the books rather than a TV series episode, I think) - then Neil Gaiman referenced that in The Doctor's Wife and reminded everyone about it.

The "don't cremate me" thing is a Missy/Cyberman plot rather than a real thing - they want people to opt against cremation so that their bodies are available for upgrade and, at the same time, the threat of possible cremation and the soul's reaction to it is one of the bits of leverage Seb uses to get deceased consciousnesses to agree to delete their emotions. Kind of shit to leave it for a week before making it explicit, though.

Didn't John Simm die rather than regenerate last time the master was with us? Then there was some mystery surrounding a female hand and his ring at the very end

Why shite-pandering, CaptainAnkles? I'd have loved to play the Doctor when I was a kid despite having figured by age 6 that I have less acting talent than the average fish and think it's great that it's possibly come on the cards for the new generation. Fed up with women only playing side roles.

Thanks all for explanation about the cremation thing - I'd managed to miss that completely. Doh!

We loved it in our house. I have a 6 yo DW obsessed dd who watched and enjoyed. Think the darker stuff goes over her head though.

The Doctor is a male character, introduced as a grandfather. He's had a wife and a daughter. There is no real reason to have him played by a woman other than to make a point. Every time a regeneration comes around, people say 'it should be a woman' but there is no reason why it 'should' at all. Just because he can change appearance doesn't mean he should change sex. Unless the best possible choice of actor to play him happens to be a woman, I think it would be pandering to turn him into one.

I imagine that Moffat is hoping that having Missy will satisfy the calls for a female Doctor for a while.

Again, totally agree, Captain ^^

I don't suppose Moffat cares much about gender, I think he likes to mess with our expectations.

I don't believe the Danny/Clara relationship, zero chemistry, boring boring. We think Miranda should be the new companion here.

The cremation bit wqas horrible. I think he goes too far in the stuff of nightmares.

Really enjoyed Chris Addison's performance.

again, spot on Captain

Why does Chris Addison remind me of Kenny Everret? the Campness in him I mean!

lord yy about the Danny/Clara relationship. It's odd because they're both good actors and the Doctor Who team can write believable relationships. I don't really understand why the Danny/Clara relationship fell so flat.

There isn't the smallest iota of the beginnings of a chance that Moffat or any other showrunner is ever going to seriously consider a female Doctor, at least in the next couple of decades -- but that'll be based on commercial realities. There's no particular in-show reason why not (except that (a) unlike (at least some) other Time Lords, the Doctor doesn't seem to have conscious control over his regenerated form, but (b) nor does it appear to be random given that at least twice now he's settled on the form of someone he's already met, so presumably it's either subconscious or part of some Big Ineffable Cosmic Plan (dialogue in "Deep Breath" suggests that the Doctor, at least, goes for the subconscious explanation), and (c) if his subconscious had a burning desire to be female it would probably have tried it by now (hard to say for Big Ineffable Cosmic Plans on account of their being ineffable)).

I loved this episode. First time I felt engaged in the series, and lived that the master has become a mistress.

My favourite bit was after Clara betrayed the Dr and he said ' you betrayed me - do you think I care so little for you that that would matter?'

Brilliant, dark and twisty.

I'm really not enjoying this series. Don't know why I keep watching it. I want it to get better, but with the exception of a couple of individually good episodes, it's just a disappointment.

Can't stand Danny Pink. I think he's emotionally abusive - trying to force Clara to give up the Dr for him, calling and demanding to know where she is.
Clara is supposed to be written as a strong woman yet she allows 2 men to constantly tell her what to do.

I wish I could say I won't watch the season finale...

We watched the old 10th doc finale with John Simms yesterday. Now THAT'S how to do a good whizz-pop finale .

Danny didn't try to force Clara to give up the Doctor for him.

He was concerned about her relationship with the Doctor, yes. But he specifically told her to carry on but made her promise that if the Doctor ever pushed her too far she'd tell him about it. Then the Doctor DID push her too far and she decided not to travel with him any more -- and Danny told her not to make the decision when she was angry but to calm down first. Then she went back on her decision but didn't tell Danny because she knew he'd disapprove rather than because he'd "made" her do anything. It was obvious to Danny in "Flatline" that she was back with the Doctor but he didn't say anything to her about it until "Forest of the Night" even though it's clear some time had elapsed between the two episodes.

And if you call your partner and there's screaming and explosions in the background I don't think it's unreasonable to ask where they are.

You see, I'd say that (The Last Of The Time Lords) was how to stretch a story arc until it goes "Sproing" and goes beyond silly. I was very disappointed by most of RTD's season finales.

I note in passing though that there was more unresolved sexual tension between the Tenth Doctor and Simm's Master than there is between the Twelfth and Gomez's Mistress...