Jimmy McGovern Common

[KenDoddsDadsDog]

I love his writing, that was really hard going.

Brilliant

Was in tears at the end. Fabulous writer and great to see Nico whatchmacallhim in another good role. he was ace in The Village

I found it hard to believe that given the bloke that got stabbed wasn't the bloke they went in to beat up that the prosecution would go for the other 3 in this case, especially when the pizza bloke saw what happened. I can see them using joint enterprise when several blokes kick someone to death or beat someone up and they all say the other did it but in this particular circumstance it seemed unlikely. I'm not a lawyer though.

I just watched that, it was very good. I'd never heard of joint enterprise and feel quite conflicted about it to be honest.

If my son was murdered I'd be all for it, but if my son were in Johnjo's position I'd be against it. It wasn't his fault he was born.

Fantastic acting though.

Fantastic acting and script.

It also showed brilliantly the dishonesty of the law (JohnJo gave his statement 'for free' from a position of naivety that the truth would out whilst the pizza owner walked free in return for his), and how panic prevented from the boys and their families from identifying the difference between pleading guilty to joint enterprise murder and planned GBH until it was too late.

Ultimately, it was about mothers and sons, which is what Jimmy McGoven does so extremely well.

Think it was based on the fact the other 3 had discussed beating someone else up beforehand, and were looking for him. Who's to say John Joe wasn't in on that, we know he wasn't, but how could they prove that?

I'd never heard of Joint Association, but heard Jimmy McGovern discussing it last week in an interview. A very complex situation, glad this drama has brought it to the publics attention. He's a brilliant writer!

It's 'transfer of malice' 2rebecca.

JoJohn's innocence could have been proved by statements from the other 3 boys if the case had actually gone to trial.

The guilty pleas prevented that happening.

I'm completely choked up by it. There was a case on the news only this week and I didn't understand the implications. He said he got every actor he was thinking of when he wrote the parts . Keiron and Jonjo were perfect for their roles.

Jimmy McGovern has no problem getting the actors he wants for his roles.

He said in the interview he doesn't always due to schedules and holidays , this time he got the full set.

There'll always be issues with schedules etc but the rather broader point I was making is that actors would chew their arms off to work with him.

It was gripping and excellently acted, but there was a certain amount of poetic licence with the legal elements!

Jimmy McGovern is of course the patron of the campaign which Janet Cunliffe (the mother of the 15yo who did the first brief 'talking head' piece at the end) set up to try to change the law on joint enterprise. Her son Jordan was one of those convicted on a charge of joint enterprise for the murder of Garry Newlove (the father who went out to stop a group of teenage youths from vandalising his neighbour's garden and was killed). So it is obviously a cause very close to his heart, and I think at times the programme showed this by tipping over from drama to political polemic.

I was just reiterating the interview. Are you having a Jimmy McGovern top trumps ?

Haha. No.

Ah was that who it was SignYourName ? I didn't realise that was convicted on joint enterprise but I knew that Steven Lawrence case was convicted on that. Who was the sister ?

She was one of the people jailed for the murder of Andrew Ayres, I think - the taxi rank murder where a group of people set on a man they thought had taken 'their' taxi.

Of course the most (in)famous joint enterprise murder conviction was Derek Bentley, a true miscarriage of justice.

Gosh I didn't know that either , thinking about it of course it was.

Ah yes. The 'let him have it' case. Did Bentley tell his accomplice to give the policeman the gun or was he prompting the shooting?

Did anyone else think it odd that John Joe was portrayed as simple/ having a low IQ but that that wasn't mentioned. My son has a haemophiliac friend and he isn't gormless and easily led in the way John Joe seemed to be. Yes you can overprotect a child with a physical illness but he did come across as Tim nice but dim. If he was his lawyer should have used that, but maybe it was just poorly acted (and directed although fans of Jimmy McGovern won't accept he is less than perfect). The mother was on about him going to university at the end, which given he was 17 and driving unaccompanied would have been fairly imminent but he seemed to me to be portrayed as a lad who'd be doing well to get a couple of GCSEs.
I think it was well acted apart from that point.

I didn't pick up that the John Joe character had a low IQ at all. It was pretty powerful, I think. I'll have to watch Newsnight on Tuesday now to find out more about this all.

I didn't think he was portrayed as "gormless" or having a low IQ, more scared, confused and rather naive, as I think you easily could be if you'd been cosseted by your parents.

I thought he was over protected and really wanted to be 'one of the gang'.

I thought it was excellent and the acting was fabulous. It made a welcome change from the bloody football.I really like Jimmy McGovern's powerful writing.I think it is beneficial that he has raised awareness of how blurred the law can actually be.

I was aware of joint enterprise due to a case around here, where a man was shot in a pub, I found it very confusing that the person who pulled the trigger and actually killed the man, received a similar sentence to the get away car driver and the goon passengers(who never left the car). I have very mixed thoughts on this legal procedure.

I did not get the impression JohnJo had a low IQ more like he was shell shocked by the whole experience.

I will also watch Newsnight because I'm interested to find out more.