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Original poster

Anyone watch 'Lefties' on BBC 4 last night and/or last week?

61 replies

motherinferior · 16/02/2006 09:34

And if so what did you think? I wasn't sure about last week's, which I felt (a) slotted together the basis for about three different rather interesting programmes (b) was not quite politically acute enough, especially when it came to the endless ramifications of the Fourth International (no explanation, for instance, that the SWP was an offshoot of IS, or the divisions between the SWP and the WRP). Last night's, however, the feminism one, was I thought fairly good. Made me feel quite powerfully nostalgic, and slightly embarrassed to realise how much I had - and perhaps still do - found entirely reasonable. No mention of the highly divisive role of the Kings Cross Women's Centre, and it was a bit odd in its timeline (went right up to the end of the GLC, yet absolutely no mention of Greenham), but seven out of 10, I thought...anyone else?

God, I don't half go on about all this, don't I

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acnebride · 16/02/2006 09:36

very sad to have missed it
what was the King's Cross Women's Centre?

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 09:39

Wages for Housework lot, the Wilmette Brown and Selma James gang.

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Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 10:43

Oh go on, am I alone?

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acnebride · 16/02/2006 12:37

seems like it MI - what a shame. I can't even ask if anyone taped it as my video is on the blink. Hope they repeat it some time.

Fauve · 16/02/2006 12:45

I had to watch it, so I could spot People I Know. It sent dh straight to the laptop so he could do some MNing. Personally I felt renewed anger, which I also felt at the time, about being leant on by separatists to eschew men. There was one woman I knew in particular who was strident about women not having anything to do with men, yet she had already done the married bit, and got a ds and dd to show for it (someone else, not Linda Bellos). Yet those of us who were young women were meant to avoid relationships with men, and having children, or we would be traitors to the cause.

Blu · 16/02/2006 13:16

Aaaargh - I missed this! Still not very good at finding things on the digital box. (what a thing to admit...as a feminist!)

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 13:17

I remember referring to my boyfriend as 'this bloke in my house' .

Political lesbianism was a bit compulsory, wasn't it. In a 'why would you want to do that way' - do you think some of it was also an insistent de-sexualising of desire for women as well?

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Blu · 16/02/2006 13:26

Yes, political lesbianism was a bit compulsory. I was very active in lots of feminist circles / activities, and got a bit carried away...and then resented it tremendously.

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 13:29

I think another thing that has never really been explored about those times is just how frightened quite a few political lesbian feminist separatist types were. They had constructed an idea of such absolutely general, savage maleness which was going to rip them apart the minute they had any contact with a man, that the world was a very frightening place; and conversely the wimmin-only spaces we created were the only safe spaces around.

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Bink · 16/02/2006 13:34

Missed it. And I did mean to watch/record it, but for me mostly because I only woke up to that side of life when I went to live in the States in 83. So wanted some insight into what I'd missed.

Was out to dinner with some elderly situationists instead.

Bink · 16/02/2006 13:35

Which had informed who they are in v analogous way to feminism informing us.

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 13:41

oh go on, tell more (am planning article structure, need Diversion)?

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Bink · 16/02/2006 13:57

Do you know, it's a bit difficult to put into words, at least words of the kind of precise expositionary kind that I know how to use. Sort of the point, of course.

Art revolutionising commerce and commerce revolutionising art and both doing it to other with subversive intent. Being subversive about own subversiveness. Makes it sound like there are no jokes - v much the opposite. Experienced it's mostly a lot of anecdotes. And nice shoes.

fennel · 16/02/2006 14:00

didn't see programme. also not really old enough to remember those 70's activities properly - was in primary school - but have always been rather attracted to the idea of political lesbianism.

am whatever the word is for lesbian fag hag. straight woman who likes to hang out with lesbians!

Caligula · 16/02/2006 14:01

Ooh I've met Selma James, was she Somebody?

wilbur · 16/02/2006 14:06

Sounds like an interesting prog - maybe they'll repeat it, they do sometimes on BBC4. Glad things were being discussed seriously as I get v fed up with those poking fun programmes and comments about feminists that basically say isn't it better now we can shave again and all have wonderbras.

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 14:14

I reckon it's repeated late tomorrow.

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Dinosaur · 16/02/2006 14:20

Yes, I found a lot of it entirely reasonable too.

And I'll tell you what - when I then watched Newsnight and saw again those appalling images of sexual humiliation and torture from Abu Ghraib, I wondered. I wondered whether those old-style feminists have had a point about pornography and sexual violence. I wondered, if our young soldiers weren't absolutely steeped in violent porn, whether abuses of this kind wouldn't happen, or at least not be quite as ubiquitous as they seem to be.

And when I think of the numbers of women I know who have been raped, then actually I feel pretty angry too. Still.

Caligula · 16/02/2006 14:22

Was this a BBC programme? Because on Telewest, there's a sort of TV on demand thing where you can get BBC programmes and re-run them and just watch them whenever you like, within about a week of them being shown. It's called Teleport or something and it's on the main menu.

wilbur · 16/02/2006 14:25

Ah yes, 7.30pm Friday night BBC4. Have sky plussed it.

wilbur · 16/02/2006 14:27

Dinosaur - I get angry too about young men's attitudes and am gradually getting dh to understand (not that he is violent or into scary porn, but you know how men just shrug) the way I feel about some things. Now he has dd to think about, he can see how small scale misogyny can lead to terrible, terrible things.

Dinosaur · 16/02/2006 14:51

Just more generally on the programme - I did a lot of "women only" stuff when I was at Oxford and I think it did me a lot of good. I haven't got daughters, but if I have I think I'd be encouraging them to try and seek out some women only space in their lives.

mi - I was surprised they didn't mention Greenham! It was the route into all this stuff for me, and I'm sure I can't have been the only one. My best friend from school and I went to Greenham in 1982 and just thought it was fabulous.

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 14:58

I remember you looking enviably poised yet appropriately lefty on demos, Dino

I think it just got side-tracked into the GLC stuff because of the particular women it profiled.

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Dinosaur · 16/02/2006 15:02

I'm sure you must be thinking of someone else, mi. "Enviably poised", my a**e!

Original poster
motherinferior · 16/02/2006 15:03

You were one of those girls who could wear a headscarf with scruffy poise, I remember. Unlike those of us who wore 143 handmade baggy jumpers festooned with aggressive badges. And then wondered why nobody ever tried to chat me up

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