Anyone watching Panorama?

[LauraNorder]

Think it's going to be and

I think it ends up about attacking the profession because removing your child is about the most draconian thing the state can do - at least if you are sent to prison you have a chance to get out, but once your child is adopted, that's it.

I don't understand why social services are being criticised. A doctor concluded that the child had four broken bones from two separate injuries. What else were they supposed to do? Why isn't the doctor being criticised... o hang on, they are trying to get the doctor's anonymity lifted. This seems to be the real problem here, not over zealous social workers.

Social work really does need good quality social workers with sensible heads on their shoulders.

I love my job by the way, however difficult it might be - I am just very aware of the immense responsiblity on my shoulders. I tread carefully and with respect, although no doubt make mistakes too

I've had truly atrocious ones, and wonderful ones who I owe a huge amount to.

What was the panorama show like? Balanced?

I think it would be a lot easier to deal with the dire if the wonderful were supported.

We have a distant relative (I don't know them) who is going through something similar in that the little boy (same age as DD) has some unexplained injuries.

Parents are split up and both deny any non accidental injury. Baby is in care and has been since he was about 9 months old. He is about 4 hours away from his mum though and she doesn't have a lot of money to go and visit him. He has been undergoing tests for deficiency syndromes but so far none have come back positive. All very sad

why did they get a settlement from the council... surely the SW were doing their job?

Thought Panorama programme could have been much better. No suggestions about what is the best way to proceed if a child has broken bones and there is no immediate explanation. A colleague has a case tomorrow - three month old baby, two broken ribs. Parents say they have no idea what happened. What would panorama do??

Laura if the child is placed by SSD they have an obligation to pay transport costs to support her contact arrangements.

If there are legal proceedings her solicitor should write to request this.

Silverymoon and Spero, I'm only a layman, and have no in-depth knowledge about this kind of thing.
But I agree with you. And have so much admiration and respect for SWs. They do a thankless task under difficult circumstances. Of course there are 'bad' ones out there (I'm a teacher, and it's the same in our proffession), but that's not the point here.

If you were told that a baby had these kind of unexplained injuries, what else would you do? If they did nothing, surely that would be inexcusable.

But I feel absolutely terrible for the family. Of course. I just can't imagine what it must be like to think someone might take your son from you. Horrendous!

eve - was it for their jobs? i'm a bit lost too.

profession

(and I was agreeing with your 'what were they supposed to do?' comment from ages back!)

I know it's the most draconian thing that can be done (and having been about 4 weeks away from it happening to me when I got on a plane I know what the fear is like). But I still don't see the need to attack the profession.

Parts of the system are a disaster. Some SWs are a disaster. Many are not.

I do wonder about the level of influence medics have over SS. Is it too much?

In this case though SS didn't separate parents and child but put in 24hr supervision? Is that right? Must have been a huge strain on all. But I'd go for supervision over removal every time. Tbh, seems fair enough to me.

I can't really see any other way that could have been dealt with. The little boy had multiple unexplained injuries.
I appreciate it must have been hell for the parents, but their LO was never taken away from them and the right outcome was reached.

Social workers are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I know the parents in question and know how hard it was for them during this time. That is all I will say on the matter.

Their victory is the right outcome for this family.

I was really irritated by the whole thing. The camera kept cutting to the interviewer who had his 'outraged' expression on, like someone had stuck a broom handle up his bum.

What would you have done eh? Not do anything because they seem a nice middle class family and wouldn't ever harm their child?

It is horrible that innocent people go thru things like this, but it is infuriating that a once respectable journalistic programme like Panorama has just produced half an hour of unhelpful pap.

SW get so demonised I am very worried that it is making the good ones leave and preventing new ones joining.

What the programme also failed to point out is that it can be really difficult to get a peadiatrician to put their money where their mouth is and give an opinion.

I have (as a social worker) many years ago had to stand up in court and give my explanation as to why an injury was unlikely to be accidental rather than the peadiatrician because she kept changing her mind when it came to giving evidence.

I had no doubt that the injury was not accidental and was mightily relieved that the High Court agreed with me. Parents supported me too - child was in the care of a family 'friend' at the time.

I think their decision to have William stay with his parents under supervision was the right decision.
There must be many factors that have to be considered when you are the SW making this decision.
I think there must be alot of common sense, instinct and adequate assessment time all need to be considered.
Plus the families social position, also there are other organisations that would have been contacted, like thier gp, hv, and other public organisations that the family may attend. SS would probably have spoken to family, friends, neighbours etc to get a fuller picture of family life for these people.
I think alot would have happened in order to make this decision that hasn't been mentioned in this program.

It's not just the social workers though is it?
The medical profession has a lot to answer for too.

I have had the misfortune to have experienced one of those named at the end first hand.
He totally mis-diagnosed my child - no it wasn't an allegation of abuse or cruelty.
I fought for a second opinion and when that came through and we returned with proof that he had been wrong he went from overly optimistic to utter doom and gloom. Neither of which were ultimately correct.

I can well believe that he jumped to the wrong conclusion in the Panorama case too. In fact when my oh and I heard the hospital involved was Addenbrookes we both said "Oh I hope the doctor wasn't ......."

From our experience we know of other children he has wrongly diagnosed too causing heartache, worry and stress for other parents.

As far as I see it the social workers were following up on what information they had been given. Sometimes they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I do however feel very sorry for the parents having been put through such a nightmare and am happy to see that they now are getting on with family life.

Medical opinion does carry a lot of weight - it has to. I wouldn't be able to comment on the likelihood of a child breaking his leg because he got it stuck in the cot, or having a brain haemorrhage because he rolled off the bed - all reasons parents give. Only a radiologist/neurologist etc can help with that, and if they get it wrong, god help us as we can't challenge it.

Look at Prof Sir Roy Meadows. No one in the court felt they could challenge him first time round.

But again I ask, what else are we supposed to do? Children are most at risk of being murdered by their parents, I am afraid that is a sad fact. We can't just leave them at risk of being killed.

I have name changed because this exact same thing happened to my cousin in law.

Her child had a broken leg, diagnosed at 6 weeks old, social services involved, child removed and given to CIL's parents for the first year of her life. My CIL and her DH could not be alone in the room with her child when her parents left the room she had to as well, the grandmother had to give up her job to care for the grandchild. Each night my CIL had to go home and leave her child with her grandmother. After a year they were cleared, she now has another child who was put straight onto the the Child Protection Register. She is fighting this and fighting to clear her and her DP's name as it now appears that the injury could have been sustained at birth but no-one can be certain.

Even within the family other family members were saying things like "no smoke without fire". Imagine having to live like that?

I had my first child at the same time and I remember the cold horror I felt at the thought of this happening to me. I felt so so lucky.

CIL was not allowed to live with her child for the first year of her life. She will never have that time back again, it is heartbreaking and yet what can you do because no-one apart from CIL and her DP can ever know what really happened.

I know the family. It was all awful

Damn if you do and damned if you dont.

The Social workers were doing their jobs- yes horrific time for the innocent- but imagaine if the Social workers hadnt done their jobs and they were actually abusing their son?

What I think this highlights is the need for cases to be dealt with quicker...didnt it take 17mths for the family court ruling? Far to long IMO.

Insertexpletive/ Suntangirl...slight hijack but can either of you recommend a book on reflective writing. Still not got a reading list for my Uni course and soooooo bored at home!

God no. No-one wants the risk.

But, and I know I am talking without regard for cost right now, wouldn't a system with automatic, independent second opinions be safer?

It seems that medical evidence gets treated like divine knowledge transcribed by the holy and not to be challenged by the mere mortals. That seems to be a dangerous situation where (without wishing to sound hysterical or conspiratorial) public money, anonymity and the lives of families and children are involved.

When I remember Sally Clarke and the others like her, I can't bear to think of what they went through. But the response in some sections of the media seems to be simply to slag off social workers. It is a great shame.

And it is going to get much, much worse. The Gov has just refused to renew the legal aid contracts of 1,300 firms of solicitors out of 2,400. In Devon apparently, there is now only one firm that will be able to help parents in care cases.

There may no longer be the money available for SS to supervise parents under suspicion. My bet is removals will go up and parents will be less able to challenge.

"A colleague has a case tomorrow - three month old baby, two broken ribs. Parents say they have no idea what happened."

My DH broke his ribs coughing, is that beyond possibility in a baby too ?