I think she should see a therapist, how to convince DH?

[Lins75]

I have a 16 yo DSD with whom I live with full time because DH's wife has passed away 10 years ago.

Now, I remember being told that DSD has seen a therapist after her mother's death, only once. She was evaluated and that was it.

However I really think that she should undergo proper treatment as for the past 6 years as I've known the girl I noticed worrying patterns that only seem to have deepened with her teenage years.

She has never liked me. In face I am pretty sure that she hates me and tbh I'm not too fond of her. I kno it's a bad thing to say, I care about her very much but considering our relationship and the stuff she put me through it's very hard for me to actually like her.

For most part -she is a lovely girl. She is very smart, outgoing, funny, very popular, cheerful, happy girl living the dream life.

However, she likes her fun a bit too much. In fact she takes it up to extremes and is extremely reckless and irresponsible.

I mean, she got her license and a car in December when she turned 16 and her driving is completely crazy and careless. She runs red lights, gets speeding tickets all the time, bumps herself constantly...etc. And before she had a car she drove in cars with her friends who had been drinking before and partying (same irresponsible group of people).

Is that odd behavior for someone whos mother died in a car accident? I think yes.

She says mean things to me. She's delightful to her dad, to her brother and to my younger daughter (her half-sister) but to me and my older daughter (her step-sister) she is cold as ice and just plain mean.

She has very tumoltuous relationships. There was a very big incident in September with her ex-boyfriend. She is now seeing someone new and she actually spends nights at his house or sneaks him in (she is not allowed to do so).

She cuts school, goes out ALOT, most likely drinks and smokes, she and her friends have actually gone unsupervised for 4 days to a vacation house to stay (boys and girls).

I just think she has somewhat of a self-destructing side and that she should talk to someone.

Do you guys agree or is all this just 'normal' teenage behavior?

i think there should be family therapy if anything.

i think that there are some serious parenting issues that need addressing - such as how does the BF get in, why is she allowed a car? why can she go unsupervised for 4 days and why didn't you check that there was going to be a parent there?

are you american btw? cos you aren't allowed a car in uk til 17.

She sounds like a teenager to me who doesn't like you.

But if she were mine she'd be grounded.

I assume you're American with the therapy - maybe she does need therapy but maybe she just needs boundaries. Only you can't set them, her dad has to and you need to atgree thme as a family.

All teens act out IME. But she sounds like she's dangerous. Take her car away

forgot to add - that yes, sounds like self self self centred teenager and drama associated with it - the mothers death will be such a high self centred focal point during teenage years - the poor me, the crying to friends when drunk, the faux death wish stuff - yip pretty normal

oh yes Custardo has a point I think family therapy might help if it teachers you and your partner how to set boundaries and protect her from herself

the behaviour doesn't sound that odd to me in the context of what you have just said - maybe she feels guilty that she didn't die instead, or is tempting the Fates to take her too?

it would seem natural for her to resent you at least a bit, not very nice or fair or acceptable but probably natural

rather than making it all about her, even though it is, how would you feel about family therapy - with everybody taking part and having their say and hopefully getting some helpful objective responses from the therapist(s)? we've had more than our fair share of this and although it was rarely comfortable it was almost always enlightening

wow, you lot post quickly

oh I like you Custardo

I think it is quite understandable for her to be behaving the way she is. It must be scary and worrying for you, but it's not abnormal behaviour.

If you insist that only she goes to a therapist if she isn't personally keen on the idea, I very much doubt that will help. If you all go to family therapy together that may be a lot more beneficial.

Don't do things that simply serve to heighten her sense of being separate/different/isolated/a "problem" that you want to "fix". You are all a family together, after all; I am sure you are already doing your best for her, but it is unlikely that there is nothing you and your DH could learn or gain from family therapy yourselves.

Thanks for replying guys.
Yes, we are american custardo, you can start driving at 15 and get your license at 16.

I suggested family therapy a year ago when the family problems became unbearable and my daughter was planning to move out to live with her dad. However after long and firm discussions with DH some of the stuff got better. At least family-wise.

However now there is that nagging problem that there is always a problem with DSD. Literally, I am on the phone with the principal's secretary every day.

And DH believes that because she gets great grades, participates in extracuriculars and dances, rides horses etc. she is allowed to go out. And I agree with him but what she does is way out of control imo.

Custardo, it was him who approved she goes on this trip for her birthday. God only knows what went on there....he trusts her blindly while I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. And she sneaks her boyfriend in the house without him noticing, I usually notice but since her prefered way is to pretend I don't live in this house she doesn't really care.
And when she stays out all night, she tells DH that she is staying over at a friends house, naturally I can't prove she doesn't (she probably even does sometimes) but he is naive if he doesn't think that this 'friend' is sometimes her boyfriend.

She isn't a dramatic person, in fact quite the opposite, she has a very calm manner. She doesn't talk about her mother often and doesn't cry but sometimes the stuff she implies raise a red flag. For example, whenever some kind of replacement she likes to imply how I was a trashy replacement for her mom (all very subtle), she 'accidentally' breaks some of my wedding stuff, but god forbid anybody even touches her moms stuff.

She is a very happy girl, but I believe she does bear some hardships about the entire situation that she needs to resolve on her own before we start working on our relationship as a family and boundaries.

Cause right now she is very willfull and nothing I say will be stopping her or changing her. Not even what her father says.

Am I making any sense?
Just how will I ever persuade DH that his perfect little girl is not so perfect after all?

On the one hand you sound very reasonable about all this but on the other hand the way you talk about her isn't all that sympathetic. It sounds like you can to some extent understand her problems intellectually, but struggle to really feel sympathy/empathy for her because you don't like her all that much.

I think your feelings of ambivalence/sometimes dislike towards her are very understandable, and it's commendable that you admit them in your OP. But I imagine they will get in the way of your trying to help resolve this situation.

I don't really know what to suggest right now (toddler trying to talk to me and stopping me thinking it through as I type!) but I feel a bit sorry for both of you tbh. I hope someone with more relevant experience comes along with ideas.

This may sound bossy, but - do not underestimate how affected your daughter has been by her mother's death. It is a loss that just carries on and on - with every milestone she passes, her mum has not been there with her. And it will continue - marriage, kids etc - no mum there to lovingly advise her.

Ten years is a long time, and she may no longer even remember what her mum looked like or sounded like, but she knows she is lacking one of the two people who should love her most in the world. The grief she presumably felt as a little girl may have been buried, but she is still living with the effects of the loss every day.

Having said all that, she is clearing pushing boundaries and needs to be pulled up sharply. I don't think you said she has used her mother's death as some sort of excuse for her behaviour - does she? If not, then it may be you just have a difficult teenager. I'd try and join a teens parenting group with your DH and see if you can't learn some techniques for dealing with the situation. Better still, family therapy can work wonders (if she'll go) because, in very basic terms, everyone becomes part of the solution.

clearly, not clearing!

Ten years is a long time, and she may no longer even remember what her mum looked like or sounded like, but she knows she is lacking one of the two people who should love her most in the world. The grief she presumably felt as a little girl may have been buried, but she is still living with the effects of the loss every day

I couldn't agree more with you there. Which is why I think she needs to talk to somebody... She has honestly NEVER used her mothers death as an excuse for her behavior, she doesn't even bring it up ever. But some of the stuff she implies and says raise a red flag for me that the behavior (some of it atleast) may be the result. Tbh, she is a very spirited and social girl, no doubt she's have a wide social life and push boundaries as any teenager even if it weren't for her mothers death, but as I said: some of the stuff she does concerns me.

But that may be my own old-fashioned, closeted way of seeing things.

Dorothea - thank you very much, it's a great ppost and I understand exactly what you're saying. To me it's like a closed circle:
Because of my ambivalence towards her I can't reach out and help her but my ambivalence towards her is the direct result of her own problems. You know what mean?
So it's a bit of a catch 22.... what to work on first?

Hi, just wanted to add that sometimes, with teens, the only thing that makes things better is time. Is your DSD planning to go away to college/uni? If so, the tension will drop once she has left home. Two years may seem like an eternity with things so bad for you, but they will pass. Sometimes finding strategies for just coping and getting through is the best you can hope for.

One final thought. Everyone on MN loves a book about teens called "Get Out of My Life, but First Take Me and Alex into Town". It's light on actual advice, but somehow it shifts your point of view about how to react to your teen. I recommend it.

custardo is right. family therapy. the 3 of you need to go, and if you really care for her you won't hesitate!

if she wants her own individual therapy alongside family therapy, then great.

Yeah, she is planning on going away to uni, and that also makes me sad... on one hand it seems like forever before she finally goes away and I have little peace in my life but on the other hand I'm sad that she'll be going away so quickly and we won't ever get a chance to establish a good relationship between us. Thats kind of what I wish for...she really is a lovely girl and I would like us to be close(er).
Thank you for the book recommendation, the title seems hilarious. I'll definitely look into it.

Sophable - Why just the three of us? Our family consists of 6 people. And no, she does not want to go to therapy, it's something that I consider to be necessery in her case.

fine so go all six of you, but I think that you, your dh and your dsd would do.

one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that you cannot force someone to therapy, you can't blackmail them, coerce them, or even persuade them if they do not wish to: it absolutely will not work.

all the more reason to look at family therapy: all 3 of you, with all of your reticence going, you would be modelling a willingness to go that you hope for in her.

Lins75, you may well find that when she is an adult your relationship will be a lot better.

I didn't get on with my stepmother at all in my teenage years, really didn't like her much (although never actually hated her as much as she seemed to think). We're just very different.

But looking back, esp now that I am a mother, I can imagine how difficult it must have been for her and have a lot of respect for her efforts, and we get on well (& I think we'd be much closer if not for the fact we live in different countries now).

So there is hope that you'll be closer one day; you just have to try to take the long view