Boomerang graduate - what do I do?

[lemonlemming]

Hello all, I'm new here. Isn't really a query about teenagers (maybe an overgrown teenager?) but perhaps you can help.

I have 2 children, daughter (22) and son (20). Son is still studying but daughter graduated this summer with a very good degree from a top university. However, since then, she has declined an offer of a MA in her subject (claiming she has 'no interest' in it any more) and has been chasing jobs beneath her skill level (admin/secretarial work) but getting nowhere: either there's a recent redundancy with more experience, or they see her as overqualified, or she just isn't very charismatic or good at interviews. She is currently signed on to JSA and working part-time in a supermarket. Seems to have no ambition to have a proper career and I'm worried that at this rate will never earn enough to move out or be independent - it's fine when you're 18 and need 'beer money' but not when you're 25 and all your friends are in management!

I've been very understanding and told her we can look at this as a gap year since she didn't take one before uni, but she doesn't seem to be moving forward or doing anything to get career advice or training to make her more employable, and the deadline for uni courses that start in January is nearly past. She claims to be still looking for a full-time job in admin or school support but I'm not sure if I believe her, since it's been a while since we had any application forms in the post.

I don't really know where I've gone wrong or if I've done anything to discourage her - we've always been happy to fund whatever course or training she wants to take and I've always been supportive. When I try to take an interest she supplies minimal details and just acts very cold generally - never doing anything wrong, but no affection for me. She doesn't have much of a social life, apart from a boyfriend whom she met online, and is fairly quiet and withdrawn, which isn't helping matters. It seems like she's doing nothing with her life at the moment, and the whole situation is making me depressed and I don't really know what to do about it.

I have no experience of teenagers; I have a toddler and a baby but someone recently posted a very thoughtful post on here which really made me think.

The poster suggested that parents who make life too comfortable for their adult children make them less inclined to leave home and become independent. Perhaps you need to be less supportive!

I graduated with a good degree from a "top" university and had no idea, really, what I wanted to do.

It sounds to me as though she is suffering from depression and low self esteem. Did she ever have a work ambition?

If you can afford to support her, why not suggest she does some internships? Or start applying for grad schemes that start in Sept 2011? Personally I would give her a deadline and start asking for rent money if she doesn't start doing something relevant - anything relevant! - by that time.

She could pick ANY career to start out in, if she genuinely can't think of anything she likes the sound of then I would imagine she is depressed or there is a deeper issue at play.

Tough one. It sounds as if she is fairly terrified and retreating to a skill level she feels confident in - I did this for a long time. The post-graduate years were the worst time of my life, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for her to be spending them at home, especially when it's not very pleasant for you.

I must say she does sound depressed, but then being so 'stuck' in life would make you depressed, so it may be more reactive than an ongoing problem.

Is she trying to stay below the student loan repayment level or something?

TBH I think you could say to her that from e.g. February 2010 you will be charging her market rent for the area (for a room in a shared house) and she needs to work out how she's going to pay it. You need to be clear that you will actually do it though?

What's the boyfriend like? Is he working?

I think if you can financially afford to have her at home, I'd cut her some slack on making a decision.

A lot of my peers came out of uni on a fast-track course to good careers in the city. Of them, my DH was utterly miserable for 2 years before deciding to jack it all in and go back to uni. Another survived 5 years before going to African to teach children - he's now unemployed and reconsidering his options. For another a health scare forced her to spend some time at home, and she too retrained for a career she now loves.

I guess what I'm saying is lots of graduates come out of uni unsure as to what they want to do and it's better to take some time to figure out exactly what that might be rather than getting sucked into a career that's 'good' on paper but not quite right for them.

The grumpiness is a different issue. It's miserable coming home after having so much company and fun around at uni, but if she is an 'adult' in your house, she needs to act that way rather than a teenager. If you don't charge her rent, you can explain that you need her to work on being helpful, chatty, and generally make an effort.

On a practical level, would some voluntary work or unpaid work experience in fields she might be interested in help? Would be a positive thing that gets her out of the house, gives her 'work-life' experience, fills in any gaps in her CV and will give her lots of contacts etc.

Africa, obviously. Bloody graduates.

There are loads of opportunities to do something voluntary and useful overseas. Plenty of organisations offer proper gap year experiences al over the world, working with people who could do with a bit of support, whether it is with basic education, health care, providing basic water and sanitation, saving forests or whatever.

She needs to look into something like this, it will do her loads of good.

This boyfriend - when did she meet him, what does he do, and have you met him? Just wondering if he is an influence in all this.

It sounds as if she is depressed, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation - the longer she sits about the worse she will feel. IMO.

Wow, haven't been away long and already a lot of good advice! Thanks everyone.

Interesting that a lot of people think she sounds depressed - I have been through depression myself and it didn't spring to mind as the cause of her issues - she has always seemed very emotionally stable, just quiet, and that predates her being under-employed and graduated. Terrified of the big, scary world sounds more like it, but I don't really know what to do about that other than tell herself to pull herself together. We all have to deal with it at some time.

@30andlurking - exactly, I don't really want to come home from work, ask her about things and get polite monosyllabic answers, and she likes to deflect attention from questions about her job hunt by asking me what I've been doing at work. I don't want her to be polite, formal and acting like she'd rather be in a different room from me, and it's difficult to confront her on this as she isn't doing anything I can pinpoint as 'bad', just not treating me like her mother!

I don't really want to charge her rent - tbh I'm not sure what the market rate around here for a room would be, we're in the suburbs and it's mainly retired folk and families. To be fair to her, she does contribute to household expenses by bringing home shopping (including bargains when she's working late shifts) and on the days she doesn't work, she does washing/ironing and sometimes cooks for us. She isn't a slob and does her bit at home, but obviously this can't go on forever.

@choosyfloosy and 3littlefrogs, re. boyfriend - she's been seeing him for about three months. I have met him and he seems nice, but the meeting online aspect made me a little wary - is that a normal way to find a boyfriend? He is a PhD student and on a bursary, so he's (for the meantime) financially independent, and lives very close to us, in his own flat. I don't think they've been together long enough for her to move in with him, which is why I hesitate to charge her rent in case she does that - and she doesn't currently earn enough at her supermarket job to pay half the rent on his place.

@3littlefrogs, re. gap years - she took a year abroad as part of her course and didn't seem to particularly enjoy it - her language skills are good but as I said she's shy and found it a bit of a culture shock. Maybe an internship in this country is the way to go, but there don't seem to be too many opportunities locally. I agree, though - the longer she leaves it, the older her qualifications will be and the less chance of ever doing something with them...

Sorry for long post. It's good to get this off my chest.

Yes, I've thought again about what I posted earlier (though to find comparable rates, Spare Room would be the place). It's nice of you to think about not forcing her into living with her boyfriend before she's ready.

Meeting someone online is not particularly odd these days - I have to say, I met my husband partly online - but it's not without its problems, relationships can develop much too fast after meeting online in my opinion. She is very young to have gone that route.

I can't help feeling that something is up with her. It's not wrong of her not to want to travel, set the world on fire etc, but as you say it seems awful that she has run into the sands so soon after doing so well.

How close is she to your son? Is she missing him? Could she go and visit him maybe? Is he at the same university? Is he more career-minded? I wouldn't recommend prodding him to talk to her - she will undoubtedly spot that - but he might do so anyway, or at least it could jolt her out of this rut?

Sorry, the question about him being at the same university was actually hoping that he wasn't. I got a degree from a prestigious university and found 'detaching' from it extremely difficult and painful. Other universities a) didn't have the emotional resonance of the place where you do all that stuff and b) were a bit more down to earth and seemed more accessible for things like Masters courses. Just a thought.

Any aunts in the picture? Aunts can be great. Could one of them have a strategic 'problem' (clearing out the attic? babysitting crisis?) which she could go and help with, with again possible opening up opportunities there?

Hello again,

Thanks again for your replies - it's good to get a graduate's perspective from one of these places. I went to university too, way back when, but nowhere particularly prestigious or with this kind of elite culture, and she did have some good friends through societies she joined there. Daughter's uni is top 5, son's is top 2. ;) Hmm. It is possible she's having difficulties decompressing from the university environment, but surely there's no reason she can't apply for an MA at a similar (or the same?) uni? She claims that she doesn't like her subject and doesn't want to pursue it further. How can you get a First in a subject you hate?

Unfortunately I am no longer in touch with my family. Daughter hasn't seen any of her aunts and uncles since she was little so it would be strange to spring her on them. Son is coming home from university this weekend, though - they were very close when growing up - so perhaps that will do her some good. He calls us once a week and usually has to run off to get his dinner so she doesn't get much time to talk to him. Also possible that she is missing her brother.

Maybe it's that I'm an older parent and nearly at retirement age myself, but I wasn't expecting to have the kids still here into their twenties. I thought they usually can't wait to get away?

Hi,
Graduate unemployment is reported to be high at the moment and those in work often have 'Mc jobs' like your daughter.
We're currently in a similar position with our daughter who also graduated this summer. After spending the summer claiming JSA and serious job hunting with little response from employers, she registered with local employment agencies. She was employed within the week and, although the jobs on offer are not graduate jobs, she can try several work placements without seeming 'flighty' on her CV.
In our house though its her who is concerned about not 'using' her degree. She has similarly well qualified friends who work in shops, bars and one in a bingo hall.
All I can really suggest is to encourage her to keep applying for work (many have on-line application forms now so don't be surprised at not having lots of forms in the post) and to seriously consider part-time voluntary work as that could give her good local contacts and extra references. Hopefully with a good work record, even if it is in a supermarket,she'll be in a good position when things pick up (finger crossed).

I got a first, from an elite university, and knew I didn't want to carrying on in academia. I loved the degree but just knew that staying on in that world wasn't for me - I didn't like the ivory tower syndrome etc.

Being very successful academically did make me feel quite rootless though, I felt quite panicked. I'd had tutors telling me how talented I was, and urging me not to waste it. but I didn't know how to use it. I found it really quite scary and overwhelming.

luckily I panicked in my second year, rather than when it was all over. but I can sympathise with your daughter.

doing work in a supermarket is not a waste, I worked in a shop in my gap year. it taught me the value of money, how hard I had to work to earn enough for a night out etc. however, she does need support to move forward I think.

My parents helped me by lining up lots of different work experience, and I also went and chatted to some of their friends who'd done a variety of careers I thought I might be interested in. I was really lucky and one of the work experience jobs was a perfect fit for me, and helped me determine my future career.

but lots of my friends floundered for a year or two after uni and are now doing well. that said, I think the economy is a lot tougher for graduates now than it was when we graduated 6 years ago. I think you and her both have to expect things to take a bit longer, and also maybe consider further training of some sort.

Your daughter sounds just like my sister when she graduated about eight years ago. She did exactly the same, moved back home, didn't want to study further and only seemed interested in applying for admin roles that didn't utilise her education. And just like you, my parents were distraught.

I think it's really important that you make your daughter start to take more responsibility for herself and I would strongly suggest that you start to charge her rent. My mother was also against the idea of charging my sister to live at home, so she took the money and put it in a seperate account to give back to her when she needed it to put a deposit down on her own place. This made the point but my mum didn't feel the guilt.

Also my parents had been topping up my sister's income for treats. I'm not sure whether you are doing that or not, but if you are you should stop. She really does need to learn to be self sufficient.

With regards to giving her ideas of things to do or potential careers, this may or not be helpful. My dad had pretty much everyone he knows give my sister career advice and lined up no end of work experience but to be honest it never did any good, and I think she found it distinctly irritating. I was forced to send my mum all sorts of info about gap year organisations which she "helpfully" passed on to my sister. That didn't work either. Obviously, if she asks, you should do whatever you can to help her but be careful about coming across as too pushy. It will probably only get her back up.

I tink it's important to remember that not everyone has the same life goals and interests and that she may genuinely have no desire to travel the world or not be particularly ambitious academically. If she doesn't you can't push her into doing something she doesn't want to do. My parents are quite money orientated and expected my sister to persue a high earning career, like they did and like I did when I graduated, but it doesn't interest her. In the end, she did find her niche and is now doing a job that she enjoys and talks about going back to university to further her skills in her chosen area. However, it's not the career that my parents would have picked as it doesn't pay well but she is happy that's important.

Thi is a huge problem that is now prevalent across the economy.

Met a really nice, bright, intertsing young man a few months back working as a locksith apprentice. Turns out he ad a 1st class degree in a good subject from Newcastle University. He just could not get a job and was living back at home with paents. He had applied for hundreds of graduate jobs.

I felt really sorry for him. At that age I was living with DW in central London, good job, great prospects, eating in top restaurants, nice clothes, planning to get married. Life ahead of me. I can see why a graduate would get demotivated being constantly knocked back.

My personal view is a graduate in this position should travel the world and see what turns up. Learn Spanish, work on boats over the summer in the Med. Earn some money and discover yourself - better than sitting on a supermaket till in the UK.

Your daughter could have been me after I graduated!

I have always been rather shy/totally lacking in self confidence! I graduated in the June, celebrated my 21st birthday, had a week at a music festival and then set about looking for jobs.

Firstly looking back I don't feel that I really was looking in the right way. Mainly I was visiting agencies who were putting me in for jobs that just weren't right for me. This decreased my confidence ten times over as I felt pretty worthless and like my degree was worthless.

I ended up getting a job at a pub for 6 months which was terrifying for shy me but actually helped my confidence a lot. I eventually found a job working in my chosen field. It was for much, much less salary than other companies would pay but the boss was a bit stingy! It provided me with great experience and I was given two promotions in two years and eventually got offered a job at a really great company.

Anyway, my advice would be to let her have her time working in the supermarket job - it is quite nice to do something not so academic after graduating (and by that I don't mean easy but just something very different from what you are planning on going into). Encourage her to apply to things she would like to do long term but don't push. And if she is relying on job agencies then get her to stop doing that! They knocked my confidence for six and just weren't right for a graduate looking for work (how many other graduates do they have on their books!?!).

Try the Guardian job site as that is really good.

Good luck.

By the way, meant to add that I only graduated n 2005 so really not that long ago!

Speaking as an academic, I wouldn't put any pressure on your dd to do an MA unless she really really wants to. It's expensive, it may not improve her job prospects all that much, and it really is very very different from doing a BA. You can get a First at undergraduate level just by being conscientious and making yourself work hard; I see students like that every year.

To do well at postgraduate level, you need something different: a real burning desire to find things out, to do something new, you need to be driven. It's the difference between reading books and writing them. I see too many students who go into MA studies these days without really having thought it through. It's a wonderful thing to do if you really want it, not if you don't.

She may well learn more through working in the supermarket for a while. I did unqualififed manual labour for a year between my BA and my PhD and it was really good for me; I sometimes feel I learnt as much from that as from my years at university.

I worked in a bookshop for seven years after I graduated. Now granted that was about five years too long, but it gave me plenty of time to think about what I did and didn't want to do and eventually I went back to uni, did a vocational MA and now am doing well in a job I love.

I would certainly not have chosen it straight out of university.

Anyway, I met dh in the bookshop so it wasn't all bad - lean years, but great fun.

Thing is though, I was self-sufficient all that time. We had lots of graduates come through over the years and it was the ones still living at home who felt the hardest done by. They seemed to think they were owed the nice flat, car, holidays every year and they couldn't think of moving out until they had the income to achieve these things. Fine if that's what their parents wanted but if not...

I think the best thing for the OPs dd might actually be if she had a go at being independent on a low income. You don't need to earn masses to move from home unless your expectations are high. It may be that she feels under pressure to have a "proper career" and that she actually needs to practise being a grown up first.

I went the other way: did the full university thing- MA, PhD, published thesis the lot. I wouldn't say it exactly led to anything the OP would describe as a "proper" career: I was on short term academic contracts until I was 45. But at least I have managed to get out from under my mother's feet and make a life of sorts for myself.

I think there's a lot of good advice here.

I was very similar to how your daughter sounds when I graduated way back when in 1992. Also a time when there was a deep recession and graduate jobs were thin on the ground. I knew ONE person who went into a graduate job straight from uni - everyone else filled in with shop/cleaning/voluntary work.

What helped me was being left to find my own way, with the difference that I knew I couldn't stay at home. Mum and dad would have had me, but for me I had to get out and earn my own living.

I ended up working (live in) for a UK charity for 2 years. THere are jobs like this out there - gap years don't have to mean leaving the country. My parents were worried sick about my lack of ambition/direction, but it was absolutely formative, I learnt so much about work from the bottom up, and still use that insight today. Any work can be useful in helping someone figure out what is important and what isn't, just so long as she's working and paying her way I'd try not to worry.

FWIW, I'm now in training for a high paying senior management job, which I would not have been interested in or prepared for direct from uni.