I need some rules in place for my teenagers in the summer holidays - otherwise they'll be awake half the night and asleep half the day...while dh and I work our socks off..

[mumonthenet]

they're good kids and they need a break but last hols when at home they were on computer and TV til 1 or 2 am, then asleep til lunchtime. Drives me nuts when dh and I can't do that kind of timetable.

Tell me what your rules are if any,should I insist on tv and computer off at at fixed time? do you give em some housework to do while you're out at work? Should they cook the dinner too?

Ideas please.

Let him stay in bed all day if he likes.Eats with us and has a few days out with us which he doesn't object to at all.Switch off the wireless at about 10.30 apart from that he can do as he pleases within reason.Teenagers are like toddlers in many ways a pita but a lot of fun.

Lainey I'm with you...nothing enrages me more than my dd flolloping on the sofa wearing ALWAYS her ratty dressing gown while I tidy round her. I will be creating rules too.

Mumeeee, so do we! They've both cooked from an early age so quite often it's one of their creations. I have been really lucky with them so far, just scared it's all going to end - give me teenagers rather than toddlers any time.

DD1 has two part-time jobs on top of doing a very long school journey, so I don't entirely begrudge her holiday sleep ins, but I don't think it does them any favours to grow up making no contribution (in time, not financial) to the family. I never did a thing at home, just lots of lollopping around reading so I do insist on a bit of bathroom cleaning, dishwasher unloading. Once again, they insist that none of their friends have to!

Good thread. DS2 only 11 and still an early riser but DS1, 13, would become nocturnal if I let him. The lounging around in PJs is normal here (or just boxers ).The clothes come off the minute they walk in from school and even when they eventually get dressed at a weekend or school holiday they quickly shed their clothes again.
I usually draw up a list of rules and jobs for the holidays and stick it on the fridge, along with a few ideas for treats or days out. I feel some element of control if I have a list. When they were little it was ridgidly adhered to but it has lost it's power now to some degree.

Ours were home educated, so based at home all through their teenage years.

We didn't impose any formal work, they can and did follow their own interests.
They can and did self regulate-and the two who still live at home still do.
They often go to bed after us, I remind them of the time I have to be up for work (often 6am) and they are very considerate.

I remind them sometimes, that I could do with more help around the house-and they will do whatever I ask-not always immediately, but it will be done if they say they will do it.

When they have to be up for something, they will take themselves to bed at a reasonable time.
Today for instance ds (22) was in court as a witness at 10am, so yesterday washed and pressed his clothes and got himself off to bed and then up in plenty of time to make himself presentable.
DD(16) had an audition at college for a music course so she got herself off to bed and then up early to organise herself.

We work on consensual living -finding a solution that makes everyone happy.
We wouldn't impose any rules that are hard and fast-in fact no rules at all, just promote mutual respect.
Up to them if they stay awake through the night and sleep next day-as long as they don't disturb me, I'm happy.

Worked so far for us-even had sons friends come back to the house after going to the pub to celebrate his birthday earlier in the month.
I went off to bed having left a notice up, reminding them to 'please leave through the back door as I have to leave for work at 6am'-and they did just that and I didn't hear a peep! (Didn't leave any mess either)

I'm a big believer in teens needing different sleep patterns.
Leave them alone and they will readjust eventually.

julienoshoes v interesting that is how I see it.I tell ds what is going on and I try and let him react to it.It does seem to work.If I say something needs done if he gets up at midday thats when it gets done!

julien, interesting post and yes agree with your points. Will look at that site in a min.

I am pretty laid back, I reckon, with mine (would they say the same? errr...will have to ask em!) but I did find last hols THEY seemed to be getting a bit too laid back for my comfort

It's so great to have everyone's take on this. Any more?

I don't have teenagers yet but here's my view on it - my mum worked once we were in teens, and so we could go to bed and get up whenever I liked, and I really don't think it did me much good! I have always been rubbish at self-regulating/self-discipline. I truly mean to get things done but I am so easily distracted that I can spend a whole day procrastinating and feel rubbish at the end of it.

I know I would have moaned about it, but I wonder if some kind of responsibility or guidelines had been set for me that it would have helped me to focus and motivated me to be better organised. Like, if I'd have known I could only sleep in till 10am every day, I would have had to go to bed earlier than 3am!

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it geared me up well for later life - having a job, and then having to regulate a home not just for yourself, but with several people in it that you are responsible for too. I had kids young and it was a huge battle for me to learn how to take responsibility for how I spent my time.

It depends on the character of your child - if you know they can work darn hard the rest of the time, then I would agree its nice for them to be free from responsibility while they can, but if they're not good at being self-disciplined, then give them a bit of help!

I don't look back on my long summer holidays as an amazing opportunity to rest - I see them as a huge wasted opportunity where I could have achieved so many things that now I would only dream of having the time to do.

I don't begrudge mine the odd hours because they have to be up very early normally. They are very good about not making a noise after we have gone to bed and I never hear them. I quite like them sleeping in because it gives me peace and quiet for a while. They have to be up for lunch and clear up their own mess.

When husband and I were staying with his best friend a couple of years ago I remember his DD being 15 and allowed to stay up until all hours of the night watching TV (sometimes up until 4am). I couldn't help thinking that she still needed a bed-time even though she was on holidays. I don't think she even had any chores / part-time work to go to which made her get out of bed.

She is now doing her a-levels and has got herself into really bad sleeping habits. I wonder if there is a correlation between being up that late and her bad sleeping habits now.

This is an interesting thread.
Boden - am interested to know - do you mean that you think it was a bad thing that you were allowed to lollop (brilliant word btw) around reading all day?

My baby is very little still so I have no experience of parenting teenagers, but I do remember keeping those hours myself. I'd still like to go to bed late and get up late and then lollop around reading all day now (although not AS late) but I can't - I agree with the poster who said that it's the only time in your life when that timetable is really OK. Carpe diem & all that.

However, that said, we lived in a very tall house, so my mother slept quite far away from the living room, and we weren't likely to wake her with the TV/nintendo ;-) Certainly, I think teenagers staying up late should be considerate and helpful - they shouldn't be crashing around waking you up and they should pull their weight with tidying up/washing up etc.

Starkadder - yes, lovely though it was to lollop (and I'd like to now, too), I think it probably didn't help me appreciate what it was like for my parents who worked full-time then came home to see me sprawling on the sofa (I was very well read, though ). Also, I was hopeless as a flat-sharer in later life cos I had no idea how to do anything. I probably didn't sleep beyond 10 whereas DD1 would happily stay in bed till 1pm (and does when I'm not around). I think they sometimes use staying in bed as an excuse not to pull their weight around the house.

I do think part of bringing up children is trying to produce an adult you're proud of and consideration for the people you live with is part of that. At 15 and 13 I think it's reasonable to expect some help and I insisted on the same when DSS was their age. I try to get my girls to do their bit and think I might adopt some of the other ideas on here - lists in particular - so I don't turn into a perpetual nag. I remember reading an article by Nigella Lawson about her mother's martyred act and I was aware of my own mum having one - I don't want to blight their teenage years by doing the same thing. It doesn't achieve anything and just makes everyone miserable.

Funnily enough, we also live in a very tall house and part of the difficulty of getting DD1 out of bed is negotiating a narrow, windy staircase to her room!

It's interesting that this started off as a thread about sleeping late but there's all sorts of connected issues - the fact that they need more sleep, helping around the house, staying on MSN all night etc.

Boden - see what you mean - and totally agree that it's important to say what you think rather than do the whole martyr thing.

I think I will have to wait and see how I react when my baby is a teenager..! I suppose that it is possible that my "ah, just let them lie, they only have this chance in life" attitude may dissipate somewhat, haha

I suppose I think that the most important thing is respect and consideration - and if consideration to one's parents means getting up at a reasonable time, because that's what's important to them, then teenagers should be old enough to start learning that.

Good luck, Starkadder. Teenage years seem a long way off for you but I don't know where the time has gone. Having said that, I absolutely love this age - great conversation and company.

I get to be a step-granny this year so it's going to be interesting to see whether my DSS is as strict as I thought he was!

luckily ds has a paper round, so it is only sundays that we have the sleeping all hours, last sunday we couldnt get out of the house til really late.
however the novelty of the paper round might wear off, it has only been a couple of weeks, come the summer holidays.

totally agree with Huff.. I did this as a teen and my kids did too.
They are now 19, and 18. Oldest has just completed a gap year of WORKING full time, not wandering round the world wasting our cash and is off to uni in September with lots already saved.
Number 2 is also going to do this and both have worked part time from 16.
Feel as long as school work and assignments are in on time and they DONT MAKE A NOISE when we are trying to sleep its fine.
Wish i was 17 again....

estar and everyone else - interesting posts.

I think it's true that it's not a good idea to leave them to totally self-regulate. Perhaps one of the advantages of giving them lists/responsibilities is that you are also giving them tools with which to learn how to self-regulate. It's about learning how to life-balance, which after all they're going to need in the future.

DD1 did a month long work experience last summer (at 16). It was extremely hard work and she was completely knackered. I was glad when she finished and could have the next month off, but it was also a great insight for her into the real world out there! And she saved enough to buy herself a good camera, not much but still a payoff!

So now I'm thinking:

Communicate my needs in terms of household help without turning into martyr/screaming banshee.

Get dc's to volunteer for chores on my list for duration of summer holidays.

Specify chores which are to be done by a certain time each day, and others which are flexible.

Agree with dc's a time when computer and tv will go off at night. (I'm still not sure how to impose this one with dc3 who's only 12 and thinks she's entitled to same privileges as elder siblings!)

Mumonthenet - sounds a brilliant plan. Would you mind popping round here tomorrow and doing the same?

my attitude is not to sweat the small stuff - and this is mainly small stuff. The teenage brain is different and they are programmed to a different time pattern (seriously, I've read the book).

If I'm in bed before them they musn't wake me up. They can sleep in as long as they can manage and I'll even keep quiet until after 10a.m as long as they keep quiet when I'm in bed. They may have to get their own breakfast.

One of my friends is fond of saying "what did your last slave die of?" when he thinks they ask too much - feel free to use on teenagers expecting breakfast to be made .

thebody - how lovely to hear of dcs actually working during a gap year and not swanning off for a year "travelling" like most of them think is their right!