gap year-your thoughts and experiences

[brimfull]

would you recommend one?
when ..before or after uni?

My comments on this thread are directed at ggirl who is looking for inspiration for her DD's gap year, and I am trying to help orientate her in a specific context (English au pair in Paris wanting to learn French). French bourgeois families treat their domestic employees notoriously badly (obviously there will be exceptions) so it is wise to be aware of this and to know how to navigate the culture to get the best deal and a kind and interesting family.

BonsoirAnna on Mon 09-Feb-09 06:32:15
"cory - by what age do you think mature students are at risk of being too stuck in their ways to benefit from higher education?"

No age, it's all about attitude. Some of the very best students I've had have been of retirement age or beyond. But it is noticeable harder (particularly for men) if they have been in a situation where they have got used to a lot of deference. Studying requires a certain amount of humility, of accepting that you don't always know best.

IME being a SAHM is excellent preparation for this

LOL cory. I'm sure you are right.

Anna, thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Unlike the UK context, it would seem to me that an English aupair would fit a very specific need in France. I understand (perhaps wrongly) that long hours childcare and housekeeping are and frequently provided by 'nounous' (which are not cripplingly expensive in France the way they are in UK). Therefore, I would imagine a family would only go with an untrained limited hours English aupair for her language skills.

For ggirl's dd's benefit, what sort of families fall within the definition of 'French bourgeois families' that treat their domestic employees notoriously badly. I am forcing you to generalise badly of course, but a lot of the subtle cultural nuances would be lost on her dd when it comes to choosing the right family.

How is it that art directors, actresses etc are less likely to mistreat their aupairs?

Also, living space in Paris I assume is at a premium. Would ggirl's dd expect to get her own room? Is the fact that the family already has an existing housekeeper a sign that they do not intend to force ggirl's dd to unfairly double up on long hours domestic duties as well?

Basically I am making a generalisation about "conservative bourgeois" families (who have a strict hierarchy of acceptable occupations and their worth on the sliding scale of humanity - domestic employees of whatever genre being the pits and worthy of no consideration at all) and "liberal" thinking families, who tend to have a much greater understanding of humanity at large. The "arty professions" tend to be much more open minded, travelled etc and to value other cultures more. You really need to be aware of this in France.

An au pair would most likely get a "chambre de bonne" or very small studio apartment. We have one of these that we have just refitted and I think it is typical in that it is nice but tiny ie we have done our best to make it comfortable with its own properly fitted shower room and mini kitchen but the space available means that you really cannot spend much time there. You are unlikely as an au pair to live in the family home.

Yes - if a family already has a housekeeper the au pair is most unlikely to have to do domestic chores beyond tidying children's rooms or making a light lunch or tea.

When is your Parisian au pair arriving blueshoes?

Anna, the studio apartment sounds fab. Will the studio apartment be part of/linked to the family home in some way or could it be on a different location altogether? If the family had a housekeeper as well and wanted to use an aupair, they would have 2 studio apartments?

How likely is a Parisian family to live in a house, rather than a flat?

3 weeks' time. Wish me luck. What would have been my first aupair was French and a no-show, so I have been burned before. But I thought I would give French people from France a second chance ...

There are very few houses in Paris intra muros - there are houses in the populaire arrondissements of the 19th and 20th that have been bought up by arty types but the houses remain very small, and then there are huge expensive houses with gardens in the rich arrondissements for those who have made it big time in business/the arts.

All houses/apartments built between the mid-19th and late 20th century (up until the 1970s) had one or more chambre de bonne attached to them, usually in the attic, but increasingly the attic rooms are being made into proper apartments - this happened in our building two years ago - they are much more valuable this way.

All the nounous and au pairs who "live in" (ie whose accommodation is provided by their employers) that I know live in chambre de bonnes or tiny studio apartments, not necessarily in the same building as their employers but usually near by. A family might easily have two studio apartments. I do actually know families with more domestic employees than that, but then they usually are live out employees.

Yes, good luck . Do you know what kind of family she is from? What arrondissement? Should give you a few clues...

Anna, again, very interesting to see this slice of Paris life. I am helping ggirl's dd with her research, not thinking of skipping off and becoming an aupair in Paris ... honest!

I forgot to take note of my aupair's address and she has taken her profile off so I cannot check. She seems like a sensible girl. She is taking her entrance exams for communications studies this very week and will start in Oct if she gets in. So she has a Life Plan, which is one of the things I look out for.

I suppose I am not fussy about the type of family. In fact, I steer clear of aupairs from a sheltered and somewhat pampered background, particularly someone who grew up with domestic help. I remember what I was like at 19 and would have made an absolutely appalling aupair - so just avoiding someone like me really.

Ah, sounds like she is applying for CELSA and wants to be a journalist or press attachée...

Let me know if I'm right .

There's a film just out in France called LOL with Sophie Marceau. I doubt you'll get the chance, but if you do, see it, it gives lots of insights into the clichés of gilded Parisian adolescence and adulthood.

Anna, you could be right. She did not ask many questions of me but the one thing she did ask is what I did. I think I might have disappointed her (though she did not give it away) when I mentioned something legal, rather than media or PR, related. Dh will just have to dazzle her with anecdotes of his law firm defending tabloid newspapers in defamation cases.

I did speak to a previous family (American in France!) she worked for as an aupair and she checks out.

The movie would interest me though I probably cannot access it, from a geographical as well as language perspective.

ah you two have been so helpful in your to and fro about Paris.

As dd is hoping to study something like business and french at university with the aim of maybe getting into the cosmetic/beauty industry ,Paris seems a great place for her to get a taste of life in France.
The courses she's keen on all have sandwich yrs in France .

Anyway she's still only in yr 12 and ploughing through her A levels so atm it's all food for thought.

LOL ggirl I hope you are reassured now you are a little bit the wiser about Parisian culture and how an au pair might best find her feet (and get well taken care of, which is every mother's main preoccupation).

If your DD really wants to study French as part of her degree, a gap year in Paris with study is a fabulous preparation for that IMVHO and her intention of doing just that will look great on her university application personal statement.

If she is serious about the cosmetics industry, she should look for a family where one or other of the couple work at L'Oréal or LVMH or a modelling agency - and I can definitely help with that nearer the time .

God sounds ideal Anna,will definitely keep you in mind.Thanks.

If ever you come to Paris as a family in the next year or so, you should CAT me and we could meet up for a chat.

thanks Anna if we make it over there I will definitely cat you

Non of mine had a gap year.
DS1 went straight to university at 18 and did 4 year engineering degree. 3rd year was work placement year in industry. They then sponsored his final year.
DD also went straight to uni but she was already 19 (Oct birthday).She then did 2 years supply teaching in London before getting a permanent post and completeing NQT year.
DS2 finished A levels and didn't want to go to university. He carried on part time with retail job he had whilst at school, played lots of sport and obtained some sports coaching qualifications. He would have carried on like this I'm sure but DH insisted he wouldn't be allowed to live rent free at home for ever. So in the September he started a 4 year advanced apprentiship (sp?)with a power supply company.

I'm sure none of their school friends had gap years either. Apart from the ones who had to resit A levels!

My ds decided against a gap year before a 4 year languages degree as the course includes a year away abroad and also he felt in his words'ready for it'. I took a year off before uni many years ago and then decided not to go as I had tasted the mnoney working in a city brokerage - took me years to go back and do a MA as a mature - very mature student.

I gapped( and am doing it again technically). I call what I'm doing now "consolidating my skills and gaining relevant experience before moving on to postgraduate study" and the first one was "developing my skills and financing myself through university". In reality I was bored of school and wanted to be a nanny. And then I got bored of university and wanted to be a nanny again so I'm 'gapping' in Paris this time.

I have to second BonsoirAnna's advice about going for a "nice" family who are clear about what they want the AP to do, have had one before, preferably want one just for the language skills and provide a separate studio (it's a godsend, really it is). I don't think you can make generalisations about what kind of professions will give you a 'nice' family. Things to think about from someone who's been there and done it: are they near a language school, do they know one and is it any good? There are a billion different choices and they're of varying quality. Do the family have any links to somewhere which might provide safe meeting places for APs eg. one of the English speaking churches which has an AP group?

If she's serious about studying French she should try and get a family in the 6th or 7th because then she's really near the Sorbonne International Students Unit (which is where I do my French classes). It's expensive but worth it.

If she wants to talk to someone who's doing it at the moment then feel free to put her in touch with me (englishgoverness at gmail dot com) and I'll draw on my own acquired wisdom and the wisdom of my actual AP friends. It's a fantastic thing to do though and I really recommend it.

frannikin-have only just seen your message,sorry!
Thanks for the information.Dd has decided not to do a gap yr now as she'll be doing a sandwich yr.
Still she may decide to do one afterwards like you.