My teen has officially gone off the rails. What can I do about it?

[SnackJack]

My daughter is 15. She drinks, smokes, takes drugs (cannabis and speed, maybe more that I don't know about) and is having sex.

She barely goes to school.

What would you do?

Come down hard on her!
Where is she getting the money to purchase cigarettes, alcohol and drugs?

Sorry to hear this, SnackJack. What sort of relationship do you have with her? Would she listen to you or does she have any other member of the family who might be able to talk to her? Has this happened suddenly? Has she changed friends for new friends/boyfriend who might be influencing her?

No it started going downhill when she started secondary school.
At primary she was quite unpopular and had no friends, when she started secondary she met a like-minded soul and the two of them started acting up doing all sorts of silly things. When she was 11 she was constantly being thrown out of the classroom for disrupting lessons only for the other girl to take over to tormenting as soon as she left the room. It got to the point where the other kids "Looked forward" to being in lessons with the pair of them because they just turned it into a circus. I think it was the thought of being popular finally that made them carry it on and it gradually got worse and worse.

She was expelled from her first secondary at the end of year 8. Being seperated from her friend she swore she'd carry it on at her next school out of spite and she did. Although she didn't make any friends at first she soon made a name for herself. Then in year 10 she got friendly with a girl who had friends "out of school" that were into drugs and all sorts. Now its all a million times worse.

We don't have a great relationship so its very difficult to talk to her.

Could you all sit down as a family and talk at her?

My instinct would be to come down very very hard. When my friends daughter was playing up in a smiliar way she didn't ground her but took everything from her room and put it in storage, the teen was left with a matress on the floor and a sleeping bag. Everything stayed the the same. She was still allowed out, still allowed to have friends over etc. But she had a list of 'rules' she had to stick to in order to earn back all of her things.

I'd also work with your GP and the school, maybe even SS to try and get support with her and get her into counselling.

Another friend I had took speed from a very early age. She ended up with severe pyschiatric problems and lost custody of her 3 year old daughter

Your daughter needs help in anyway she can get it iof she doesn't want her life to end up this way.

She's collapsed twice, doctor said it was down to her not eating. She hadn't eaten anything for 3 days and had not slept in that time either. Again this was down to the speed.

She's uncontrollable. I can't ground her because I can't physically keep her in. I tried stopping her money and she just goes mad.

Let her go mad then! Are you scared of her? You need more help with this if you are. Your daughter needs helping before things get worse.

Stop her money. Hide all your bank cards and valuable jewellary in a locked safe .

If she attacks you call the police. She is only 15 so it won't stay on her record but will show her you mean business and an hour or two in the cells might be the shock she needs.

I'm just sick of all the arguining its like none of us can stand the sight of each other and it all blows up everytime I try and control her. If I don't give her money, DS1 does in return for her doing stuff for him. Its a never ending battle.

You need to keep arguing untill this stops. You could lose your daughter completely if you don't. Stop her money and tell DS! if he gives her any money you will stop his too.

I think you need more support with this. Call NSPCC and ask them about places you could get rl help in dealing with this.

I'd recommend counselling for her. And maybe family therapy if possible (family = you and her mainly)

Also, you seem to have a good understanding of how this started, its so hard for kids that aren't popular, suddenly they become popular through doing something bad and the cycle begins. Such a shame. I haven't got any personal experience of this being dealt with well, my sister went off the rails too, pretty much, and my mum and family dealt with it badly IMO.
I think to be referred to CAMHS for counselling you may have to go through the social services, not sure though.
And there may be a waiting list but anything is better than what you..AND your DD, are going through now.
Just hope in the meantime she is practising safe sex ect,

SheSells is right. It sounds like she is very insecure, very unhappy, and really firm action is needed to try to turn her life around - tough love like the TV series about teenagers being sent off to boot camp.

Stop all sources of money, all priviledges. If she wants to sell her stuff to buy drugs etc, let her. As SheSells says, if your other children provide her with money, explain your reasons for not giving her money and if necessary, stop theirs until they support you. Explain that it's for their sister's good. And speak to your GP, her school and the NSPCC, Parentline etc for advice and support. It sounds as if you and she really need effective professional help.

Whereabout do you live, SnackJack? In our area of London, many schools have a counselling service called The Place to Be (though your DD may not want to attend), and there is a free service for parents and teenagers called Open Door. Ask the Council and your GP if there is something similar in your area. Open Door see teenagers and parents together or alone.

I'm not sure that continually shouting at her will help - she is not listening to you, and she will automatically blank you, shout back and go off and do exactly what you don't want her to do . Trying to talk to each other with a counsellor present will be much more helpful. But even if she will not see a counsellor, see one yourself, as they will be able to suggest ways in which you can approach the problem.

I would be looking for help from someone outside the home in your position, as per Tanee's suggestion. You are understandably at the end of your tether and I am sure you don't have the strength and energy to do this on your own (I wouldn't in your position, I am not being condescending). If you do feel you can say where live roughly, I am sure someone will have some good ideas (keep it bumped this evening as I suspect many relevant professionals will be at work right now.)

Agree with Seashells and Tanee. It is dangerous to let her think that you are so scared of her that she can get away with whatever she likes. And your other children have got to fall in line with you.

Also, get a counsellor involved as Tanee said.

She sounds like I was at her age. My parents allowed it to continue because it was 'easier' in the short term and trust me, it doesn't turn out well.

what should they have done in your opinion?

I was similar (apart from the sex part) and it was because I knew full well that my mum would rather me be out doing those things than in spoiling her new family set-up.

Obviously I'm not saying this is the same situation for you.

Does your bad relationship predate her dropping out, or do you feel you were happy together before then? Do you ever have times when you are happy together?

I think the term tough love is a good one, because it makes clear that there are two^ components that have to be in place. You have be prepared to be tough, but you also have to make her feel that you love her.

First try to enlist her brother as an ally. Make him feel responsible and grown-up. Get him to promise not to give her any money, and let him know that if he does his own money will be stopped. (your parental duties include keeping your children fed and clothed and educated while they are under age, they do not include pocket money).

Then explain to her that you care too much about her to help her harm herself, that you will feed and clothe her but that you will not give her money. Tell her that you have spoken to her brother and that he will not fund her either. Tell her that is she attempts any physical violence, you will call the police. If she does- then do call the police. It is better for her to be pulled up now, than to get into serious trouble later. Let her scream and cry and storm, but draw the line at physical violence. Once she is over the first tantrum, you can tighten the limits a bit and give her rules as to what language she is allowed to address you in. But let her express her feelings as long as you are safe and not intimidated.

Then work hard on the love bit. Find something you can enjoy together, even if it's just watching a film together. Try to bend a little to her tastes as long as they are not dangerous or illegal. Try to show as much affection as you possibly can. Never try to make her feel guilty (as in "you are ruining my life"). Try to find pleasure in being with her.

Suggest that you both go for counselling. Or that she goes alone. And go yourself, in any case.

Hi SnackJack, just wondering if you have anyone in real life who is helping you be strong about this. Do you have a reliable partner or a good friend.

To do the tough love stuff YOU will need lots of support and help to keep yourself strong and sane.

I had completely different issues with my 2 dds: dd1 was quiet, hard working, eager to please, but was also depressed, withdrawn and self harming; dd2 is gregarious, outgoing and unworldly, but loves to party and will lie through her teeth to get her own way.

I doubt I would have managed either without the support and good sense of my wonderful partner, the listening ear of my sister, and the wicked sense of humour of my best friend.

When dd2 had a wild party in our house (age 15), we did the tough love stuff. Took her mobile phone away (she was really, really mad about that), stopped from using the computer, and grounded her totally for a month. I was worried that being so tough she might rebel totally and run away, but we got through it. I told her frequently that we loved her deeply and always would, but that we were angry and hurt by her behaviour. Don't know if telling her made any difference, she thought we hated her, but at least I knew I'd told her I loved her. During that time in particular, I tried to ignore the "small stuff" like untidy bedroom etc, otherwise it would have been constant nagging, and I tried to make positive comments whenever I caught her doing something right, e.g. Thanks for emptying the dishwasher; Your hair looks nice today; I like those shoes; etc.

It's tough having a child who is potentially ruining their life (as well as making everything horrible at home) but often I reminded myself that I was so glad that dd2's problems were better than dd1 where we were concerned about suicide.

Any chance of sending her to a therapuetic boarding school with a good reputation and lots of enforeceable rules?

I really feel for you SnackJack; had a similar experience with my dd (now coming up to 18).

I think it's very unlikely your dd will agree to counselling/therapy, although if she does, do it!

Could there be anything lurking behind this behaviour? A traumatic experience that you don't know about? This turned out to be the case with my dd, unfortunately.

It's hell while you're going through it. You need support systems, from family, friends and agencies like SS, the Education Welfare people and your own GP. Take whatever support you can get so that you don't get pushed over the edge.

It's very difficult to come down hard on a 15 year old who might be bigger and stronger than you are (don't know if this is the case - it is for me). You simply can't physically restrain them. And if they have gone off the rails they are unlikely to submit to any laws you lay down. You can feel so helpless.

It might cheer you a little to hear that my dd now acts like a decent human being. The chances are your dd will grow out of this phase too.

don't really know what to say, think it's better to get professional advice. Thought a story might be relevant

girl age 15, fighting, drinking, skipping school constant rows with parents who did things like remove mobile, deny money. Girl leaves home and goes to live with a teenage male friend and his mother. Police and social services involved, compromise reached, girl is at home in week for school, goes to friends at the weekend. She is now hoping to join the air force. Mother says the family is much happier without her! But she's hopefully coming through it. Problems began with bullying at school but she never felt her parents loved her and perhaps she was right.

You obviously do love your daughter but some girls need constant reassurance about this, especially if there are problems at school. It can be very hard on the parents and if there is a good source of help I don't know of it - but I'm going to see if anyone on MN does as I have similar but less advanced problems.

Hi Tatt

I agree that external support seems patchy. For example, my dd's original school were unhelpful. Although their 'pastoral care' person seemed a perfectly nice woman, the powers that be at the school decided they wanted to get rid of dd and put in place a sort of exponentially increasing disciplinary procedure in order to rack up the necessary number of days so that they could exclude her permanently. At no time did they suggest other sources of support and I never saw an EWO (education welfare officer).

But it was a different story when dd moved here (long boring story, but her dad and I live in different places and for a time she shuttled between us). The local EWO, Social Services, Connexions, CAMH (child and adolescent mental health people) and, above all, the people at the 'school' she was sent to (a small education unit set up to help kids who have no school place: a common occurrence in London!) did everything they could to help dd (and they were pretty good to me too). Alas, dd didn't want to take their help, but I think she was helped, if unwittingly, by their helpful attitude.

As for support specifically for parents of off-the-rails teens: I didn't find any. The people listed above were helpful to a point, but clearly their time was limited and they were (rightly) there for dd. The whole experience was so awful, so stressful that I was too depressed and anxious to ask for help.

I seem to have rambled incoherently, but my point is that support for the child seems to be a postcode lottery, and support for parents seems to be something we have to sort out for ourselves, and this can be hard when everything last ounce of energy is spent on coping from one day to the next.