university , my daughter is beggining to think its a waste of money

[45nanny]

My daughter did really well at college and has just started uni in preston . Spoke to her this evening and she said she is so bored. She has no lessons this week apart from a talk on monday and a hour or so lesson on thurs . she is up to date on her studies and has a good social life too . She said she thinks the whole uni thing is such a waste of money and i,m so worried she'll throw it in and come home . she worked so hard to get a good place and just feels that there isnt enough to keep her focased.
i ,ve said to go chat to soemone in her department about how she feels , is this normal , no lessons . help .

FWIW, I dropped out of a law degree after the first year. Was fed up of studying and taking exams. Worked for few years, got a lot of experience and went back to study something completely different when I was 23. MUCH more motivated because I actually wanted to do it when I'd had that break.

a gap year is v good imo

Sometimes I think it IS a waste of money. We have just spent £££££ putting DD through uni (degree in fashion studies) only for her to find a local boyfriend and apply for a job as a shop assistant in a cheap shoe shop just so she can stay near him.

Grrrrr

'fashion promotion and styling'? The only good reason to go to university to study this is to have a good time for 3 years. If she is not enjoying herself, she would do much better off getting a job in retail and working her way up.

Depending on what you're studying, uni can be a waste of time and money. It's not for everyone. You can gain just as much knowleage from experience.

My degree was in Fashion, I was in 5 days a week, sometimes until 6pm.

However from my experience in the industry, degree courses are only run if there is an need for them in the industry, and they are usually quite carefully tailored to match the amount of graduates to the vacancies in the industry.

I would actually say her degree would lead her straight into a job in Fashion PR, although am not convinced abot the styling aspect. Stylists usually need a design rather than apromotion background.

Also why isn't this more interesting than an academic subject?????

I would have quite liked to study this, and I was quite capable of studying a so-called academic subject, but I would rather have done something I was interested in.

And having spent 15 years in the industry I would say there IS a need for this course actually. Because it is a new subject doesn't mean it is any less useful than an academic subject........in fact I would say there were a lot of job prospecs in this, more so than perhaps with an academic subject.

I had a great time when I was a designer.....great well-paid job as well

I was very disappointed to read some of the replies, i was going to send the website to my daughter, but after reading that some replies i though better of it . She is very bright and could have gone down the acedemic route, but decided like fizzbuzz to do a course that she really enjoyed.
Unfortunately it is her choice and as much as i wanted her to be a acidemic ,it didnt make her happy, she knows her career path is in the art field a difficult choice ,but she is good at it and spoken to some fairly influencal people about which route to take , she was advised to go down the uni route as ofeten in a lot of companies you can only go so far without a degree, and she wants go all the way.
She could have gone down the job route ,(had already been offered a good job) but decided that to get futher along in her chosen career path she would need a degree.Just because it says stylist in the course title doesnt necessary mean she is doing it to be a stylist.
I think her university would be disapointed to hear that some people think that the degree course(that has been running very sucsesfully for a few years ) that the offer is a crap course, i hope these people that comented on this work in the trade , so they know what they are on about . I worry for my second daughter now , she plans to do music production and guess we'd better start saving for those rubbish degree too.!"
She is going to talk to her tutors and probably thinks that getting her self some work experience is a good idea, she is also just getting used to the idea of being away from home. Thanks for your replies , even if some of you think that unless you plan to go to oxford or cambridge, then going to uni is a waste of time.

You asked, 45nanny.

So people shared their experience and opinions, including fizz who has high-level experience in the industry.

It's your daughter going to unversity, not you, but you seem to be the one who wants it not to be a waste, although in your OP you state that your child, the student in question, feels differently.

Why not just accept that and deal with?

When one door closes a window opens, and universities aren't exactly going to crumble to dust and blow away on the breeze.

They're always going to be there for people to attend even when they are no longer young school leavers.

In these economic times, with redundancies rising and retail earnings falling and forecasts for this to continue for a few years, it's wise to plan your work future well, especially when there's student loan debt to consider.

I don't care what my daughter does with her life as long as she is happy , she has my total support and love regardless. I only asked if having no lessons was normal and what to do about her being bored. I ONLY WANTED HER TO DO SOMETHING ALONG THE ACEDEMIC ROUTE BECAUSE SHE IS CLEVER, BUT HAVE NEVER WANTED HER TO DO ANYTHING SHE ISNT HAPPY DOING ;surely as a mum you can see things in your children they might not see in them selves. I respeced peoples op, but i thought it was a little hard to take in that somepeople though she was doing a crap course. She doesnt want to leave and not sure after four weeks she really knows what she wants, just asked because i though that people on here might have abit more experience of uni .
I asked your right , didnt expected such a curt reply .

'surely as a mum you can see things in your children they might not see in them selves.'

yes, but part of my role as a mother is to allow her to make her own mistakes as she enters adulthood. hard to do, to stand by when i can predict what will be the most likely outcome, but being a mum isn't easy.

there are MANY outlets for clever people besides university. indeed, some very successful businesspeople did not go to university or dropped out, including sports figures who parlayed their skills into commercial opportunities.

clever = university is a rather narrow view, especially when someone is still so young and has plenty of time to work towards shaping their future, including time off to work and the like.

'I respeced peoples op, but i thought it was a little hard to take in that somepeople though she was doing a crap course. She doesnt want to leave and not sure after four weeks she really knows what she wants, just asked because i though that people on here might have abit more experience of uni .
I asked your right , didnt expected such a curt reply .'

this is how MN works, tbh. when you ask, you get a range of replies of all sorts. some you really won't like. but this board is open and not moderated unless in the case of obsene or threatening personal attacks.

you have to have a fairly thick skin on this board, because it can be supportive in ways that aren't just saying what you want to hear.

I agree with enid that the course is a bit of a waste of time.

I think for this type of job an apprenticeship style of learning is much more suitable.

Christ you can do a degree in anything these days.

can she get an apprenticeship or work in this field without a degree? Ending up with 30 grand of debt seems a lot if she is bored already?
My degree was 6 hours of lectures a day plus seminars and tutorials.
This is going to sound stupid...but what is fashion promotion? Is that like advertising and organising fashion shows? Maybe a part time job in the inudtsry to back up her studies and fill her time?

I also agree with some part time work in the same field as her degree if possible, it will stand her in good stead. The fahion industry is very competitive so any work experience is useful.

I think it sounds like a decent degree, just because it isn't traditionally academic doesn't mean it's not good. I think the vocational degrees are more likely to get you a job these days anyway. I know alot of people who have come away from uni with an academic degree and unless they want to teach often end up in a job that they could have started at 16 and worked their way up to the same position without the debt.

I would agree that university is largely what you make of it. It seems quite common that well qualified and motivated students get very few contact hours with the academic staff, so it is understandable that it may seem a waste of time and money. However, if your DD is on a course that is thought of well by the industry, she should use her time to flesh out the work that is set for her, read around her course, try to develop links with the industry etc. She should also get involved in other university activities - join clubs, campaign, whatever she fancies.

For each module at my university we have something called a Module Unit Descriptor. That clearly sets out precisely how much time should be spent by the student on the module.

It might list 12 hours of lectures, 36 hours of seminars and 12 hours of computer labs, per semester, for example. It will also give details of how many hours the student should spend on study for the module and how many hours should be used for assessment.

I would think that every university in the UK will produce similar documents and that students will have access to them - although in my experience few bother. Could your daughter access hers? Then she will be able to see how much time she should be spending on each module.

Thanks again for the replys, in an ideal world , she could be local ,doing apprentiship in the fashion world , with a great mentor , and then get paid loads of money , but unfortunately this isnt going to happen . There are no apprentiship and she saw going to uni as a way to get into and going far in the profession that she wanted to be in .she doesn't just want to work in a shop,selling clothes. Fashion promotion is all about the fashion industry , it hopeful will give knowledge and experience to go into any field she wishes. She ideally wants to be be an editor of a mag or maybe a creative director .The course gives her the oppertunity to explore other avenues such a fashion journlisim or photography. I think having spoken to her tonight , is not so much the work its the time she has on her hands. She has to learn to be on her own and do things that intrest her, she is going to talk to her tutors and explore some different things. I do apreciate all the replies and realise that not every one believes in uni, but i am just trying help my dd ,by trying to be a bit more informed. i do agree though that going to uni when your older is probably a better idea , 18 is far to young , but it was her choice , so i,m supporting her.

'she doesn't just want to work in a shop,selling clothes. Fashion promotion is all about the fashion industry ,'

In order to know the industry, you have to have worked in it, and at the more levels, the better.

Having worked on a shop floor demonstrates to an employer in the industry that you know what works on a floor, what sells, that you can deal well with customers and understand customer needs and desires, work under pressure (for example, during holiday seasons), that you are not of the opinion that some tasks are beneath you, that you can work as part of a team, that you can deal with managers as well as be one (ever heard of people being hired as managers without any bottom-level experience? because i haven't unless they knew someone), that you know how to motivate people to sell (because at the end of the day, those peons in the shop who sell the product), that you are flexible.

All sorts of very invaluable qualities.

I do know a buyer for Dorothy Perkins, but she started by working in retail shops whilst at university (she has a business degree, however, and then an MBA).

She wouldn't have gotten the job without all that shop experience. Whilst at university, she was gaining work experience and moving up into the management levels that later gave her the edge in the industry.

Hard graft, BUT it's easy to get into at entry-level.

I would have thought selling clothes in a clothes shop is fashion promotion. Last time I looked clothes shops were a pretty fundamental part of the fashion industry.

I worked part time all through my full time first degree while my friends were partying (I did party too, in moderation) but it stood me in good stead when I had to actually get a job when I graduated, and was even better preparation for being a post grad student while working full time.

Perhaps if she got some experience at the coal face it would help her decide whether this is something she is interested in enough to slog at it? Even when she graduates, Chloe and Chanel are not going to be falling over themselves to snap up fashion promotion graduates from Preston University. Sorry but they aren't. High Street is much more likely to be a good starting point for her. If it's good enough for Stuart Rose, Phillip Green, George whatitface who used to run Next etc etc

exactly, georgi! also, a lot of those coveted internships at fashion mags are unpaid, meaning that retail work is one of the limited employers where you can work the internship during the day and fit weekend and evening hours to pay rent and eat round it.

you don't get paid 'loads of money' straight off the bat in most professions, even after finishing university.

I'm a lecturer and these complaints are quite typical. It's too early for her to really know what it's like at uni. The first few weeks are meant to be for making friends and finding out where everything is. Then she should be starting to up her reading and library research in anticipation of doing well in her first assignments. If she's doing less than 20 hours a week private study on top of lectures and seminars after 3-4 weeks at uni, then she's not doing enough. The rest of the time is usually spent on Facebook, I am reliably told!!!! Or asleep!!!

OK, no point debating the merits of Preston Uni or a Fashion Promotion degree - OP's DD is actually there and doing said degree. It is unfortunate that Preston is not hotly linked to the fashion industry unlike London or even Manchester, Leeds or Liverpool though, but let's look to the future...

IMHO your DD should:

• find out what the weekly hours are for the following terms of the first year, and compare them with her timetable as it stands to see if this term really is about "settling in" or if she will only have approx 2 hrs a week for the whole 1st year. If she knows what's coming and isn't impressed she could change courses ultimately.

• ask what the modules are for the 2nd and 3rd years - to establish how the course will progress in terms of depth of subjects

• ask for examples of forthcoming courseworks (they will not give her the actual in advance as of course that is an unfair advantage, but examples of courseworks past may inspire her for the work to come).

• Thank her lucky stars she has loads of free time - she is likely a creative type and I would have killed for loads of time to work on my own personal creative projects whilst at uni. She should use the time to research all aspects of fashion promotion/journalism: get familiar with all the roles/elements/top people etc so she is ready to specialise as and when there are options to choose in her 2nd/3rd years.

• Go and get some experience (and extra cash using the spare time) working in a clothes retail environment, or in a (trendy) hairdressers - anything that is connected to her course. As a fashion student it would be odd if she didn't TBH!

She is an adult though and needs to take responsibility at some point, develop a fighting spirit (if she doesn't already have one) and turn her "lemons" into lemonade as it were!!!

All the best to her and you, you sound like a lovely supportive Mum who will help her as much as possible.

Oh and I would agree with expat that experience counts for as much or even more than the academic side.

Getting a degree gives a theoretical and academic framework and proves a certain level of ability and persistance but TBH there are so many people with degrees these days that they are taken as a given, it's the "so what else have you done" that sets one candidate apart from another and gets the jobs or the traineeships.

My dad thought that a top, well paid job would fall into my lap the moment I left uni and unfortunately I believed him so was bitterley disappointed when I was rejected for said top jobs ("But I have a degree!").

I wasted VALUABLE time trying and failing and believing in said top jobs, passed up many entry-level jobs in the meantime, got absolutely nowhere doing dead-end jobs in unrelated industries and FINALLY saw the light after 5 years or so. Which is when I took a pay drop and applied for the entry-level jobs all over again and worked my way up to where I am now, which I am very happy with, but am annoyed about the lost 5 years in between. I feel I am 5 years behind and am playing catch-up.

Don't let your DD make the same mistakes - most people start out at the bottom unless they are trained in a vocation or have had a lucky break. She might as well start out at the bottom whist she has loads of free time at Uni

Sorry georgimama, you are wrong there they had a talk on monday from a ex student who is now working for a very big fashion house and they had two girls we met on the open day working for a very big advertising company and fashion company.
Fashion promotion isn't all about clothes and selling them, its about all kinds of things and without the mags and advertising side of fashion , we wouldnt have any type fashion. So she may well go to work for chloe or chanel, but like i said she want to work behind the scenes in the fashion industry.
She is more than willing to work in a shop in fact spent most of her summer doing so , she understands to work at the top you have to start at the bottom . What i meant is that she doesnt want to end up just working in a shop . She fully understands that she will need to get loads of different kinds of work experience ,that is why she is also on a sandwich course , giving her a year out at work.She is planning to get realivant work experience and is working her way through various organisation at the moment. Hadnt realised what a response i would get,thanks again for the positve and help comments.

Sorry georgimama, you are wrong there they had a talk on monday from a ex student who is now working for a very big fashion house and they had two girls we met on the open day working for a very big advertising company and fashion company.
Fashion promotion isn't all about clothes and selling them, its about all kinds of things and without the mags and advertising side of fashion , we wouldnt have any type fashion. So she may well go to work for chloe or chanel, but like i said she want to work behind the scenes in the fashion industry.
She is more than willing to work in a shop in fact spent most of her summer doing so , she understands to work at the top you have to start at the bottom . What i meant is that she doesnt want to end up just working in a shop . She fully understands that she will need to get loads of different kinds of work experience ,that is why she is also on a sandwich course , giving her a year out at work.She is planning to get realivant work experience and is working her way through various organisation at the moment. Hadnt realised what a response i would get,thanks again for the positve and help comments.