EMA is unfair - its supposed to be their money - not to do with parents income!

[TheHolyGrail]

Why is gov't pushing EMA saying its 'your' money. DS1 can't apply as we are above the limits. Why isn't at least the lowest EMA amount paid to all students who qualify at least there is some equitable incentives for all. The parents can then top up as they want to (and able to afford) based on their personal circumstances. After all child benefit is not income related.

Juule - Parents of applicants can supply the Learner Support Service (the EMA people) with details of dependants by sending in their final tax credit award form for the previous year as supporting evidence.

mum2 - so what would you do if you didn't claim tax credits (even though you were entitled to)?

I think the problem with EMA is the loopholes. I know loads of kids who get it because their parents are split. As long as the kid has 'main residence' with a parent earning below the threshold, then they get it - regardless of how much the other parent earns. In fact I know a few who have very high earning dads, who they see several times a week, but they live with mum, who deliberately works part time to avoid going over the threshold. This includes some 6th formers in private schools - it's a feckin joke! It's just fag and beer money to them. And it makes a mockery of families where both parents work full time and the kids get bugger all.

My dd will get the full amount of EMA because our income is below the threshold but even if their wasn't EMA she would have stayed on at school because she is very clever and will need to get a degree to do the career she wants.

Her money will be used partly for financing a trip to France as part of her French A level course and the rest will mean that she will be able to buy her own clothes. We are lucky that she will not have travel expenses as we live less than 10 minutes walk from her school.

I'm sure there are deserving cases where EMA is used for the purpose intended. It discriminates against children who have parents who have stayed together though, and that stinks. My dd has a friend whose father earns over 100k and she gets it - simply because the parents are divorced and the teenager lives mainly with mum who works a couple of days a week for pin money and must be laughing all the way to the bank!

Agree about the not counting dependants issue - the income guidelines don't allow for children at home (or for that matter if you are doing your best to support a child at uni). And I also have a friend who is separated from her husband, actually has a much higher income than us, but gets full EMA.

Getting EMA also means her son also gets a reduced cost bus pass too so it's a double whammy.

but if you are divorced or separated then you are a different household it is irrelevant what your ex earns

isnt it? if they dont live with you

what does the woman who just earns "pin money" actually survive on?

I'm divorced, my ex earns, I get maintenance the the CSA says (25% of his net) I get no more from him, what he earns doesn't come into it. My household income is 21,000. When we we together it was 50,000. I could afford bus fares then, I could afford most things then!

She presumably lives off her maintenance payments - which aren't counted as income for EMA purposes.

i didnt think people got maintenance for themselves these days

i thought it was all clean break

No idea how it works - my friend gets money from her dh (presumably for the kids, not for herself) - she doesn't declare it as income (should she?). On paper her household income is less than mine; in reality it's more.

Getting EMA also means her son also gets a reduced cost bus pass too so it's a double whammy.
saggar tell me more please, how does he get this?

Also, just because the parents are wealthy, doesn't mean that they will fund higher education for a child. They might think education is a waste of time if the child doesn't have a penis, they might want a child to go into the family business etc.

Tis through our local council 2shoes. ds2 has a bus pass for college - the council administer it on behalf of the college - cost for us is about £300 for the year, cheaper if you are on full EMA. Ask your son's college, they usually run a a scheme of some sort.

will do thanks

I hate that Family Allowance isn't means tested...what a waste of resources

solidgold - so what you're saying supports the argument that either all post 16 kids or none should qualify for EMA,as just because parents are well off, doesnt mean that they will value education.
zippi - the point about being separated is that you are still a parent and should still have responsibility. It is ridiculous that a teenager with a dad earning, say 100k, who happens to be separated from the mother earning 20k, will qualify for EMA, when a teenager with parents who have stayed together and earn 20k each will get nothing! Why should a young person be penalised just because their parents haven't split up?!

It's an identical situation to the student grants pre-loans - I got a limited grant because my parents' income was above a certain amount. My mate got the full whack because his mum had no income on paper - although her ex, his dad, & his stepfather were both very nicely off indeed.

I agree with the OP. If it's going to happen at all, it should be available to ALL post 16s who make the choice to continue studying. It should be about independence & responsibility.

Saggar - if maintenance payments coming into a household are not counted as income when assessing parent's income for EMA, they should also be disregarded as income from the household of the family who pays them when assessing their resident young person's EMA. They aren't though.

OK I havent read the whole thread or any of it for that matter so forgive me if you don't agree with this.

EMA in my opinion is to stop parents in low income households encouraging their children to get a job as soon as they can as they are now 16 therefore should be working and contributing to the household income.

If parents in low income families realise that they are no worse off from 16-18 if their children stay on in education then it may help them to decide their own path.

OK when my DD stays on she will be entitled to this and for that I am grateful, as a single parent.

I do think that children from two parent working households have not been as financially disadvantaged as children from one parent or one parent working households. So it is IMO fair.

Juuule - Don't know the answer to your question as I'm in receipt of tax credits so I can supply the information that way. The scheme providers would be the people to ask.

Caoutchouc - I agree with you. I imagine that obtaining proof that maintenance payments had actually been made in all cases might be difficult.

Okay - thanks -mum2

Absolutely riven. If he's claiming something that isnt true, then it's fraudulent. However, even if they are resident with the mother, as the father earns a mint, then why should the kids get EMA?? I think EMA should be available to all post 16 students, provided of course they attend and meet targets.
ravenAK - exactly! I remember that situation too - when I was at Uni, all the students I knew who had split parents got the full grant, even though in some cases one parent was loaded! It was a joke - particularly students who had just come from fee paying schools, who then waltzed into University on a full grant, while many students with parents who were still together and much less well off got bugger all!
Pisses me off to hear successive governments talking about valuing marriage and the family when actually a lot of systems work against couples who a) remain together and b) accept responsibility for their children.

Lots of the kids in the local, rather well to do town get EMA as Mum doesn't work as she lives off the divorce settlement. Lots of the Mum's are worried as the kids use the EMA money for drugs and alcohol. The kids get together and pool their £30 and then go on massive sessions at the weekend.