Stealing and Lying Problem

[easy]

My neice, who is now 13 is giving my sister and BIL a really difficult time with moodiness and bad behaviour, but the biggest problem is that she will lie about anything, and steals money whenever she gets the opportunity.

She had a difficult start, and was adopted by my sister and BIL at 5 years old. They have given her love and attention, a life in the country with dogs and chickens and pony, all that sort of thing. We all knew that it wasn't going to be an easy ride but .....!

Current problem is that she has made friends with a girl who is a very bad influence at school (call friend Jane for the sake of this conversation, not real name). Jane has been in and out of foster homes for past several years, apparently no one can cope with her behaviour, now back in childrens home, being taxied to old school. made friends with my neice as neice is immature and easily led, will happily join in with skipping lessons, nicking stuff from local sweetshop, pinching money so Jane can buy cigs with it etc. School say they can do nothing to keep the 2 girls apart.

Last week matters came to a head when neice stole £30 from granny while at granny's for tea. She has had the odd 50p before, but £30. Neice adores Granny, and whenever in trouble at home looks to Granny for support, so we were surprised she would do this. She denied the theft repeatedly for 5 days (no question it definately was her), finally admitted it, and gave a grudging insincere apology, only cos all her favourite things had been taken away.

Her parents have been locking up money and valuables for ages, but are finding life very difficult. they have tried all sort of tactics, rewards as well as punishments to no avail.

help please

I can only add that when i was a teenager, i went through a rebelious stage, and the only thing that worked for me was being grounded. I was also shamed by being picked up at school by my mother at 15 (really embarrasing). Hope the situation improves for you sister.

Hi easy - If I were your neices parents and my child was stealing. I would go into her room and takes everything thats personal to her (except bed, dresser and clothes) and then ask her how she likes someone taking things that belong to her and not them. Of course I wouldnt dare give them back until she learns to stop stealing.

When I was young about 12 a friend and myself decided we wanted to collect for our church. We used the line "Were collecting for our church so the kids can go on a trip to "?". "Would you like to donate"? We got so much money. In the end I got grounded for a couple weeks and my friends parents told her since she loves collecting for the church she had to give her entire allowance each week for a month to the church offering plus being grounded. This meant absolutley no money for anything. We did learn a good lesson.

It's so sad that the parents have to lock up valuables. It sounds like an extreme case. Hope things get better.

I can only say how I would react if mine were doing it, but I think I would be tempted to sell anything she had to recompense whoever she stole from, such as her tv if she has one, or her cd player. The removal of personal stuff from her room is good though, I did it once to my daughter and it worked, although she is younger.

Hi, easy. Sounds like your neice is going through a really difficult phase ? must be horrible for all concerned. Presumably your B and SIL have spoken to the school, but it doesn't sound terribly satisfactory that they're just saying they can't do anything to keep the girls apart. Can't they offer any advice? Or any perspective on the problem? 13 is a really difficult age to be, and however much your neice has been given, it sounds as though she still has some "issues" that need tackling before this phase leads her on to bigger and more dangerous things. She may be latching on to this tough, 'bad girl' to compensate for some kind of feeling of personal inadequacy (sorry for the amateur psychology ? I may be way off!)
I'd advise tackling the school again, and if that doesn't work, perhaps suggesting counselling. I'd be inclined to be really firm with any boundaries, but make sure this girl had plenty of support and a listening ear, as I feel there must be some kind of problem at the bottom of this.

my son is 13 and if he did this i would seriously kick his arse up and down the street. change schools maybe the shock of such a massive move will sort her head out.
certainly no privalages and chores until cinderellas life looks like a charm. too many kids have things easy and handed to them on a plate and expect things - i mean they expect expensive things and they expect they will get away with a certain amount of behaviour.

taking things away for such a crime seems silly as i have taken my sons telly, video, playstation away because his room was a mess and he ruined a rule book of his friends ( for a ps2 game) that we have to re - order and maybe pay for. and i made clear to him that these things were taken away because he was careless and thoughtless and disrespectful to my feelings - that it wasnt the fact the book got ruined that pissed me off but the lack of thought behind his actions. a child of this age must realise they have to demonstrate love through respect and thoughfullness love isnt a one way street. i want to see some comin my way too

take all her stuff away,change schools
give her chores to do with regularity, my 10 year olds empty the kitchen bin, wash the pots (and we dont have a dish washer), make me and dad tea and coffee, feed the dog. my 13 year old makes us tea and coffee, cleans the kitchen sides and sweeps the floor, takes the dog out and they get NO MONEY. - and irons his own school uniform every morning and i am not even punishing them. its expected - as is respect.

wow custardo, I am seriously impressed!!

Message withdrawn

i am having problems with my 13 year old boy, he has been stealing and lying as well as being excluded from school 3 times in 2 months, i have tried talking to him, grounding him, taking away playstation,giving him the most disgusting jobs and even a kick up the bum none of these have worked. I thought i was going mad it has got so bad i can not talk to him or even look at him as i think i would do something nasty to him. I weny to my doctor in the end and he has reffered us to the Adolesence physchiatrist i just hope they can help. I have no faith in them as i think they are as mad as the people they think they are helping.

If anyone can offer any surgestions on what i can do to help my son please do as i am lost for ideas.

Bikeress Sorry to read of your difficulties. As my children are not yet teenagers i really dont have any advice although there dont seem to be so many parents of older kids on here so not so many posts on these subjects. I suppose I would just say that you should try not to be negative about the Psychology service as it may well be helpful and if you are negative that may rub off on your son too. Surely it must be worth a try? I'm guessing its education psycholgy rather than psychiatry (?), so about behaviour rather than 'madness'. There must be mumsnetters with experience, lets hope some of them see this and reply to you.
hth

Bikeress, sorry no advice either, my boy is only 5 but you have my sympathy, I'm not particularly looking forward to teenage behaviour, having been one myself once. Someone recommended a book called something like "get out of my life but first run me and Alex into town" for good advice on dealing with teenagers. I haven't read it but the thread is here and people there with teenagers seemed to find some of the tactics useful. Good luck.

Bit drastic but my sister did this sort of thing as a child - my parents - after threatening to cut off her hands (middle eastern values or something!!) they called the police station and a guy came round to talk to her - she got the shock of her life when she got home from school and there was a fully uniformed officer in the sitting room. He gave her a brief overview on how criminal behaviour would effect the rest of her life and the difficulties of getting a job, travelling etc.

The police are usually quite happy to do things like this, stopping them when they are young amkes them less likely to reoffend when they are older.

agree with boe - i have a 13 yr old boy - when he was younger i took him to the police station and with a wink and a nod to the officer behing the desk asked if someone could chat to son ( he "found" a watch and didnt tell me and i wanst sure if he hadreally found it or not - and then there was all the lying over telling me)
so"bad cop" police woman came in and gave him a right telling off it was all i could do not to laugh. but son was mortified.

i think a good reward system if you can do it too - so enhance something positive becuase at this teenage time everyone will be sen to be on his back over everything and obviously " no one understand him" etc.

my lad has a paper round and we told him if he saved his money and if he was good we would give him half again as spends for holidays. this makes my other kids jealous, however they are busting to get a paper round and i am of an old school work ethic principle. anyway maybe you could say if he stays in school this week you will buy him a cd on saturday. i have even done star charts with my kids at 13 you would think son would tell me where to get off - but he is very competetive with his siblings and the one with the most stars at the end of the week gets..... well thats whatever you think will pull is strings

hth

Can anyone help me? I am so scared for my son. He's 19 and does all the usual teenager stuff - he's stroppy, untidy, doesn't speak, doesn't communicate, see us (mom and partner) as the enemy, is secretive and often downright nasty. All this I could tolerate (he's the youngest of 3 sons, so I've already survived two before him).

12 months ago he passed his driving test, and its been a complete nightmare since then. He's constantly being stopped by the police, but takes the attitude that they have no right to do this and he's certainly not trailing all the way to the police station to show his documents. He's been up in court a number of times for motoring offences (including undertaking a marked police car doing 70mph!). He's now been banned for 18 months and has run up THOUSANDS of pounds in court fines! Last week an official from the court came to arrest him for non payment of fines, but I managed to scrape together £330 - this isn't the first time I've bailed him out (he owes me £1000).

I really am at the end of my tether. I've tried talking to him (so much talking!), threatening him, being the understanding mom, the firm mom, the stand-for-no-nonsense mom. I've taken time off work to sit down with him to sort out his diabolical finances (he owes so much - credit card, loan, fines, mobile), but he's not interested in any help or advice. He just doesn't seem the least bit bothered about anything (except cars). Sometimes I think he must be a very troubled young man, other times I think he's just being incredibly selfish and irresponsible. I can't bail him out any more, I've run out of money (and patience), and I'm terrified he's going to end up in prison, which will ruin his whole life. He had a letter from the CROWN COURT this morning (it was printed on the envelope) but I know he won't show it me or talk to me about it, he never does, so I just worry what it is (or worse, what it could be).

I'm so worried I cry all the time. He used to be such a lovely, loving, happy child, and I really REALLY miss him. It's not as if he's got in with the wrong crowd, his friends all seem very down to earth (keep their jobs, don't get into trouble with the police). His dad's a bit of an arse and can't be bothered with him or his brothers, so I get no help there. My partner's normally very laid back, but I'm not sure he can take much more either. I just want someone to come into my home and tell me what I'm doing wrong, tell my son to get his act together, and make everything alright.

Has anyone else ever been in the same situation? Can ANYONE help?

Sorry to go on so much.

momonedge, I'm so sorry you are living with this. I can't offer advice based on experience, but all I can say is that at the age of 19 your son should be taking responsibility for his own actions, and I wouldn't be giving him money for fines or helping him out. He needs to learn that there are penalties attached to certain actions and that he should be the one to pay them.

momonedge, just read the post. Teenagers are hard work., but yours is 19 and he's not a baby any more. You sound like a great mum, if you didn't care you would just let him get on with it. He has to learn the hard way, IMO, but you also have to be strong. If you've done it before with the other two, you can get through it. How old are the others, could they talk to him, maybe scare the sh.t out of him? Police could get involved perhaps, unofficially, even tho he's already in loads of trouble. I know what you mean about wondering if he's troubled or justa selfish pain in the bum, but what if something happened tomorrow and you and your dp had to go abroad to work, or whatever. Where would he live, how would he survive financially, pay off his debts etc?. If you've tried all the approaches, give up now and let him sort his own problems out. You could maybe contact a debt counselling agency, one of those that don't charge but guarantee to help with debts. They can sort out gradual repayments, court stuff and so on. Maybe he is really scared but puttin up a complete show of who gives a damn? Let him know that you love him, don't go on and on, give the relevant phone numbers and let him survive. Your relationship with your partner is important, he probably wants to kick him up the ... and tell him to stop worrying his mum, but maybe you won't let him?? Could you go away for a week or two, maybe and let him wonder about where's all the food/cleaning lady/bank lady gone? Just a few thouhts, HTH. You have my sympathy and an ear whenever you need one.XXXXX

Threeangels.. I did the same as you when I was 13! This time tho, I was in Germany with my parents. I teamed up with this lad and he got hold of an old redcross box. We went round all the houses we could and collected loadsamoney! My conscience got the better of me and I had to tell my parents what I had done (wooos) so we too had to give all the money to the church. We were made to stand up in the church and explain to the padre where the money came from! Oh, I never did it again!

With my kids, and they are a handful at the moment, and my stepkids, I have a rule. They respect my things and those of other people or they will have no option but to lose their dignity.
{{{loads of hugs}}} to all with the unpleasant task of putting up with gruesome teenagers!

Hi
Stressed mum trying this for the first time. Mum to two headstrong, lazy, teenage boys who have now discovered alcohol. one already sailing too close to the wind for comfort. At wits end

my son gtes pissed on saturday ( during the day) then comes home and gets grounded for a week. hes done this for two months now - its obviously not working - am tempted to let dh beat the shit out of him - it wont make him change but would make me feel shit loads better so you are not alone shadowsmum. so now he is grounded for two weeks, in which time he will be my slave and personal brew boy....one sugar please oh drunken one!

just played son at poker - he bet his grounding - and won. hmmmm maybe i need to re-evaluate my parenting skills....mind with this new govt bill about gambling being passed - i could argue i am equiping him with " life skills"

Shadowsmum-we may sound flippant on here but it's the only way to keep our sanity. I read all the threads about crying babies and just think that it's only going to get worse! My kids can be angels or nightmares but keep talking to us, you are not alone! Welcome to the mumsnet "NIGHTMARE" zone.......{spooky emoticon}

oh i so know where your all coming from ,my foster kids have lied,stolen put holes in walls drugs,and at times i would like to kill them,but im not allowed to even swear at them(verbal abuse)tut tut!but it gets to be a game with some how to out wit them,for stealing i give the, a list of jobs and the price they earn and they work it off, my bug bear is drugs,99%of the kids that come to me would have no problems if they left the drugs alone

Fostermum, I can't imagine how you cope with that. I was discussing these things with another mum on Saturday, and we reckon teenage pregnancy must be easier to deal with than drugs any-day.

My sister's daughter is 15, very immature, very impressionable, and we pray that her rural environment helps to keep her away from the drugs community.

Can't believe how long ago I started this thread

unfortunatly its everywhere we are very rural,but its everywhere ive given up giving the law the dealers names and addresses,unless its herion they wont bother,i do it because i believe all kids need a chance and some are such good kids,but drugs are the plague of teens