Helping 13yo DD who doesn’t have friends

[Lindtnotlint]

My 13yo DD doesn’t have friends at school. She is broadly liked, with no bullying, but isn’t part of a group at all. Has nobody to sit with at lunch and says she is lonely most of the time. She slightly missed the boat in Yr 7 and feels everyone is in quite set groups that she can’t break into. People chat to her as a “back up” (as she sees it) but then revert back to their groups and never bring her along into them.

Classes move around next year (starting Year 9) and it feels like a really key moment. What can I do to help her? So far have
-tried to emphasise staying friendly and nice to people and not getting stressed about it (she is good about this, but she is definitely starting to “give up” as she feels she is always having to push herself into conversations or whatever)
-kept her in a big range of extra-curriculars, including out of school. She loves this, but no strong friendships have emerged just low key friendliness.
-told her to keep being her wonderful self (she is a little on the quirky side; nothing extreme but definitely more interested in literature/politics than make-up/music).
-organised a small party/gathering, which went really well and was super fun (inc for her) but didn’t lead anywhere.
-focused on having lots of fun at home and not fixating on this issue (we are very low key about it - this is definitely not a case of over-obsession/over-involvement by me)
-told her it will get better eventually and she should be patient and things will be ok (this is wearing thin after two years)

I think there is a mixture of things going on. Some (mostly?) bad luck, some of her not totally “fitting in” or being quite in the mainstream of teen fun, some of her being a bit too picky (she isn’t keen to just pal up with the least popular people, for example). There is also an (increasing?) skill issue because after two years at secondary without friends she doesn’t really know what it looks and feels like to be in a group. And she can be a bit standoffish about things, partly I think because she has experienced a lot of (gentle) rejection so some of her natural desire to join in with stuff has faded.

I should say, as I am sure someone will ask, it is of course possible there is some low level neurodiversity going on (if so it’s definitely not very noticeable at all). But I am not sure it really matters either way or is the thing to focus on. Regardless, she is a lovely, friendly, fun girl who knows how to listen/share/send funny gifs etc etc so I would have thought she would have made some pals 😖. (She has all the right gear, clothes etc - it’s not a matter of not fitting in in that way)

I have let the school know, but I don’t even know what to ask for - they are too old for a friendship bench!

Thoughts on what I could do/do differently would be really helpful. Pls be nice - it’s really sad when my wonderful bold brilliant daughter is saying she is lonely every day.

My daughter is the same. She’s going into year 9 in Sept. She says she’s ok with being on her own and rejects all advice about mixing with others.

there’s many people that chat to her, but she’s not included in any of their groups, she sits in the library on her own at break and lunchtimes.

she did have a close friend, then a boy joined them and then he friend became his gf. They then distanced themselves off from dd.

ive tried suggesting clubs, outside activities etc but she’s very resistant.

i do also think there is some mild neurodivergence too

DD2 sounds exactly like your DD - super friendly but very much on the periphery, not really invited to stuff, a bit lonely, we have all the same advice you did. I’m not sure I have anymore to give but wanted to come in just to say that it all changed for my DD in Y9 when the classes were mixed up and she now has a lovely group that she hangs out daily at school with, gets together outside school with (not loads but enough to make her happy). My eldest DD who has now finished GCSE’s also found Y10 and Y11 in the actual gcse groups really good for making more like minded friends too. It’s hard but don’t despair - your DD will find her group eventually!

Hopefully sage people will come and offer advice and/or hope!

It will click at some point, sounds like you're doing all the right things. It's tempting to think that everyone else is getting it right and is happy on the inside, when you feel like you're on the outside, but it's not the case. In every one of those groups, take it from me, there will be constant drama, one upping, pecking order mean girl stuff going on that is very tedious and draining to deal with. If she can cruise through with her extra curricular stuff and your support until something sticks, and it will, then it might not be a bad thing in the long term.

She sounds great, and so do you.

Keep on with the activities outside school try a drama group guiding or scouting.

The other "sorting hat" can be Year 10 when birds of a feather somewhat flock together re GCSE choices/ class composition so don't feel like Year 9 is "last chance".

Might she try rugby? I manage a girls team and we have repeatedly found girls who are much more socially peripheral than your DD to have found their place with us and made some great friends. Appreciate the physicality isn't for everyone though.

Ooh yes - just to follow up on my previous post - DD2 climbs (NICAS) and does drama outside school which has also really helped so she is busy outside of school so at least the feeling of loneliness then has been less and has also been good for her confidence

My DD was a bit like yours at that age. She maybe had two friends and was just a bit ‘awkward’ - she did a longer school trip and it improved a bit after that, but was never part of a big group all way through school, plus was often left out of her small group’s gatherings etc. Even in extra curriculars (mainly drama at that point) she never really made friends.
Sixth form was better, met different people & then uni was completely different as there really was a group for every type of person.

Op I hope you don't mind me addressing the ND issue. My daughter is autistic and has friends is social etc BUT it has always been very very 'effortful' for her. The friends she has, she made in primary - where a lot of scaffolding and support went on from adults who understand which kids needed help.

She has not made a new friend since starting secondary despite wanting to very badly.

I notice you say that any neurodiverse traits are barely noticeable - but I think having no friends and not knowing how to be in a group seem to be pretty substantial traits? I wonder why you might think of that as not significant as a result of potential neurodiversity. Someone is either ND or not - it's not something you can be 'a little bit' - though of course people can be impacted in different ways.

Growing up not realising you are autistic (for example - not saying your child is) - is deeply damaging as you constantly wish you were someone you are not.

It is an extremely common trait of autism in girls to struggle socially - my daughter for example has rigid thinking around friendship where I think she struggles to understand the stages of getting to know someone - or struggles to believe she could make friends with someone who isn't immediately her friend.

It's also a core trait of autism to struggle with group interaction - partly because of cognitive processing differences where the back and forth/ unspoken communication elements in a group simply become hard for an autistic child to understand.

I have of course absolutely no idea if your child is autistic but I would just advise - be careful of dismissing it as not a big deal, not worth investigating.

I’m not ignoring the possibility of neurodiversity - I just don’t think it’s the key point right now. She isn’t at a point of being interested in or needing a diagnosis (and for contextual reasons I know one wouldn’t make her feel better about things). All that may or may not come in the future (I suspect most likely not). But in any case - even if there were neurodiversity present and even if it were diagnosed it doesn’t solve the friendship challenge. She is great and deserves to have some lovely friends - ND or not!