Son hates school, has no aspirations, spiraling towards being expelled

[928393mdhdkw]

My son has always hated school but since starting year 10 and the pressures of gcse's its all going very wrong.im going into school tomorrow for a meeting, the second one , but nothing ever changes.
He messes about, has no respect for staff, is late to lessons, doesnt do homework, doesnt attend detentions . There is work experience coming up and hes now refusing to do that
Says he doesnt want to so anything when he leaves school
He has adhd and is struggling terribly. Socially because he feels he has to be stupid to fit in. And academically because he finds the work hard and cant focus. Instead of trying hard or asking for help, he gets himself sent out so he doesnt have to do it.
He is on report permanently, that does nothing to deter. Hes on the highest level of report. We are at the end of our tether and dont know what else to do.

Outside of school where there are no pressures hes completely different. Hes fine at home, hes fine with friends and family. Never caused us an ounce of trouble outside of school. He has different friends outside of school.
He is scared of a lot of things. Has health anxiety. So wont vape, take drugs , drink. He can be sensible and is very polite and well mannered. Everyone loves him who see him outside of school. Hes got a great personality.
But in school hes a completely different person . We dont know what to do . And we dont know what to do after he leaves school next year either as college would be just as bad. And its a 2 hour bus journey away.
At the rate he is going he is going to fail all of his gcses. He wont do any revision. Doesnt retain anything that hes learnt because hes not listening in the first place. I wish I could just pull him out but what good would that do?
We have other kids not like this and husband and I are high achievers with alot of qualifications, went to uni and have senior jobs. We cant relate and everything we say to him he says is nagging and he doesnt care. He does care, alot actually, but for some reason hes choosing to deal with it by being stupid

Is he on medication for his ADHD. If not it could be time to consider it. My own son really messed up last year at school. He only passed a few GCSEs, and just was barely going in. I was really worried about him.

But this year, he's at college and doing really well and I'm proud of him. I think boys especially, have a lot of time. It's not like there's much chance of him becoming a young single parent and missing out. He's very young all this to say I know at the time it's such a worry, but try not to so much

I'm so relieved at how my son's turned around, they mature so fast in these couple of years

What does he exactly struggle with socially in school? How was school before?

OP, do you think he’d be like this at any school? I can’t understand a DC who is polite out of school, but who is disrespectful to staff in school - where has he learned this behaviour and these attitudes? If it’s from others at school, would a change of school do any good? Could you even contemplate private school (where children tend to take a more serious attitude to study) - most DC just want to fit in, so if he were to be in a different environment, do you think he might change? He’d have to do year 10 again but it might be worth it.

There are online schools if you think he’d be motivated at home?? I think they’re expensive and their is presumably some additional admin with taking exams privately but it’s doable…

I wouldn’t normally ever say this but it does sound like home education or alternative provision could work for him. The current school setup seems totally pointless and is not meeting his needs. Would he agree to doing stuff at home and be compliant? Does he understand the implications of not getting English and maths? Do you think he’d do well in the right sort of workplace?

Pull him out, get him a tutor and see if you can help him find some work. Get him working at home! Re reg him with a school before the exams (he can sit English and Maths) and they have him on a slow integration so he only does mornings etc for a bit. The school won’t want this but have to take him.

Just focus on your relationship with him as he will be fine - he sounds fab but struggling. The longer he stays the more risks there are that he gets pulled into the lives of the genuinely more disaffected kids or gets involved in incidents that make it hard to get references.

There are college courses he will probably enjoy but worry about that later. They take admissions in October of the same year still so there is plenty of time…

It sounds like he is drowning under the pressure of school. He only needs 5 or 6 gcses to be able to do a levels or anything else he wants to do. It is a reasonable adjustment for the school to let him drop some gcses. Would that help? It would give him more time to focus on the work that he needs to do.
I also agree about adhd Meds. They have made a massive difference for both of my kids.

And the work at home - I meant cooking and painting and gardening … find somethings for him to do. Get him busy. He will be fine - boys like him usually are and there are lots of them.

So are you approaching this with any understanding of his ADHD? He is probably feeling significant pressure because he’s not like his siblings and you and your husband are high achievers. He may already feel written off. Have you made him feel, even if it’s not intentional, that getting exams is the only way to be worth anything? You need to back off, I would take him out of school, all you’re doing right now is making him feel worse with the constant pushing. He can do GCSE’s at any age, he can still get a degree even without them (Open University). I think as he is no longer marching to the drum beat that trying to force him is only going to make things worse. He probably already feels like an utter failure, he’s not choosing to be shit, he just feels like there is no point because everyone is telling him he’s useless. He is probably feeling awful right now, like no one cares about him, all you care about is exams. If you haven’t already studied it look up Rejection Sensitivity Disphoria (RSD). Your son is struggling. Take him out of school, maybe try an online provision but things are not going to magically improve. You need to change the timetable in your head. He can get there but it’s not going to happen at the same time as his peers by the sound of it.

Is he employable? I doubt it. I think you will just have to wait until he grows up. Nothing works does it? I guess this is why so many young people are unemployed and are NEETs. It’s worrying but they need to realise for themselves that life requires some effort and doing what you might not like.

I’ve seen similar, but not as bad, with a relative. His parents molly coddled him, put him on a pedestal and laughed at his silliness. Spent hours and hours on his computer and was having tantrums when asked to have a meal. Looked like addiction really. When allowed to do what he wanted to do, he was completely polite. He had no sen but was a total nuisance at school.

Have you indulged DS? It seems more common with boys.

Outside of school where there are no pressures hes completely different. Hes fine at home, hes fine with friends and family. Never caused us an ounce of trouble outside of school
But this isn't at all true. He isnt fine at home, is he? You said he wont do his homework and he wont revise. These are things he should be doing at home under your guidance. So he isnt reaching your expectations at home either.

What else does he do at hime? What are your expectations for him with regards to chores and hobbies? What are your expectations of him on a daily basis?

I was also initially going to suggest online provision.There are many options these days, if you have the resources.

If your meeting hasn't happened - i would focus discussions on what support and strategies they have in place for the adhd and whether any adaptions are needed to behavior policy (is he on report for things directly part of adhd that he has no support for)

I would also ask if they have access to any mentors from outside school - sometimes cahms have mentors or charities.

And are there any alternative provisions in the area. I dont mean a permanent PRU type situation, but for instance the large secondary i work at pays for some children at risk of exclusion to do things like : a mechanic project one day a week; or a sporting day, or a farm based day, or a metalwork day. These are generally charities on the area that really are all about boosting self esteem and giving practical skills to children on the cusp of exclusion. They vary in price and its generally a terms worth the pupils get. - school will not want to do this and will say there are no funds - but they can really help pupils get through to the end of gcse and schools are meant to try everying before they exclude a pupil. (But they have to exist in your locality) worth an ask.

His thinking is very black and white and rigid. We think he is also on the spectrum . School is school, home is home, there is no crossover. You can sit next to him for hours to do homework and he will stare in to space or write one sentence.
Hes had problems from day one at school age 4 all the way through to now. But that was the lack of focus, hyperactive when younger and impulsiveness. But he respected and liked staff.
Now due to hormones and being fed up I would imagine he has started to argue back etc. He feels they dislike him and treat him differently.
We moved him schools in year 9 and its been a big mistake as the lads at this new school are worse. He chose to hang out with the idiots for protection he says as hes scared of being bullied.
The teachers know this and know its an act and a front he puts on but obviously he must be horrible to have in their class.
His dad is not supportive and has got to the point now where he has given up and says nothing will help, let him fail and as he matures he may improve. My mum is coming to the meeting for support.
Every day is such a battle with him im so ready for his educational journey to be over.

If he can find the right job I know he can do well , but he needs qualifications. Hes taking 8 gcses , ive asked if he can drop some they've said no
His predicted at the moment are 3s and 4s

You have my sympathies, it’s really hard. My son has inattentive ADHD, diagnosed and medicated in Y9 and the difference has been huge. He’s Y11 now and on track to pass enough GCSEs to progress to A levels.
If boys can’t cope with the work then in their heads it’s better to be seen as won’t do it than can’t. My son got in with a bit of a ‘road man’ group in Y9 who all think it’s not cool to be clever, whereas my oldest was very happy to be a ‘nerd’ and hang out with the clever kids. Now he’s doing better academically and has moved up sets he’s with kids who are wanting to do well and carry on to A levels and university. Finding a niche hobby that he’s really good at has also been a huge motivator, especially as he only gets to go if schoolwork is completed. We went private to get his medication as we could see otherwise he was not going to get any GCSEs. He’s also having after school group lessons from MyEdSpace which we are impressed with. If you do end up pulling him out of school they have a homeschool group and teach core GCSE subjects.
You need to get to a place where he is motivated to do things for himself - which is really hard when you see the bigger picture and they are not looking ahead.

Our ds was similar. He did pull his socks up and work (on his own at home/on the bus etc) just before the GCSEs and did ok - and repeated the same palaver with A Levels. School learning didn’t suit him at all - it didn’t work for him to be sat listening to a teacher, he either got distracted, lost his train of thought and got behind, or he did stupid things/shouted out impulsively and got into trouble and had to leave the room, or conversely he sometimes felt the teacher went too slow! And then when expected to complete work in class, my ds was far too slow and barely managed anything. He also needed breaks which didn’t work with the rest of the class. Basically mainstream school and ADHD don’t go well together!

Bizarrely, after a gap year, ds is now acing his degree at an RG uni, getting firsts in all his assignments. He doesn’t go to lectures much - he watches online, at his own pace - and basically self studies. So I recognise (and I knew at the time really but wasn’t brave enough) that he’d have been much better doing years 10-13 at home. Maybe with tutors or online learning that’s not live, so he could have done it at his own pace.

If I had my time again I’d take him out to home ed - it would have avoided so much grief as like your son, mine was no trouble outside school. It doesn’t have to be expensive full-time online school. He could self study with resources and just have an hour a week per subject with a tutor or an online session? My year 8 nephew is home educated and just has an hour online for 3 or 4 subjects and the quality is great. He learns a lot and does the follow up work.

Ignore comments about him being unemployable- school and work are totally different! My ds got a Saturday job at a building yard at 16 and then moved to a supermarket a year later where he did mid week evening shifts. He grew up so much and it really helped his self worth. I’d definitely recommend encouraging him to get a job. They’re treated like little kids at school and being constantly in trouble isn’t good for a teenage boy. At work they’re treated like adults, and given responsibility.

Does he have a ehcp? Get him one. Also ask about alternative provision. When they say he can't drop gcses they are wrong. This is why there is a huge rise in ehcps because bloody schools won't make reasonable adjustments and then parents have to use legal channels to force them.
Definitely get him assessed for asd too. That probably means that he is hugely struggling with sensory stuff in school too. Can you ask him whether is is struggling with sensory things in school and ask the school to make adjustments for those. Things like in ear noise reduction things, sunglasses for lighting, leaving classes early to avoid busy corridors, somewhere quiet to eat lunch, being allowed to come into school early or leave early to avoid business, homework club so he can do homework in school. There are loads of things the school could be doing and it sounds like they aren't.

My son (14) with ASD and ADHD was like this. Medication changed his life and he has gone from likely failing his GCSE’s to predicted 7s, 8s and 9s. He now studies at home without being asked and doing well means a lot to him. I strongly encourage you to try methylphenidate and if it hasn’t worked try guanfacine instead.
Your son needs you. Please do not give up on him x

Can you ask school to fund a mentor? You can get these male mentors who sort of show boys life skills and model decent masculinity. They could go to the gym or do some volunteering? I think there’s some who aim what they do at boys on their last chance at school.

I have a child with AuDHD who was like this.

it’s classic symptoms and presentation.

she made it a bit further through school before dropping out due to anxiety and self harm.

so:

is he medicated?
predicteds of 3s and 4s is actually pretty good in the circumstances.
focus on English and maths. Find a tutor (that he likes) if you can.

he isn’t going to get on with school. He just isn’t.

consider home Ed.

my dd did so much better in college although she had two years after dropping out before going back to education

@928393mdhdkw ignore this very rude and unhelpful poster.

I know exactly how worrying this is so you have my utmost sympathy.

My son is now in Year 11 and also has ADHD and has struggled all his school life exactly as you have described. Great at home, impulsive and difficult at school. In years 7-10 he was constantly in detention for interrupting lessons and answering back. Low grades and not able to focus for homework.

His NHS diagnosis was finally completed last May (it took 6 long years as I think his referral was lost during covid - he was initially referred by his primary school!) and he started the medication in November - so just 3 months ago.

He is now calm, focused and his grades are picking up massively.

It's 10 weeks until his final GCSE's and I am actually now very positive that he will get the passes he needs. He got a 7 in history in his recent mocks - this time last year it was a 3.

Good luck op - there is hope. Your boy will be fine.

@928393mdhdkw agree with the above poster - ignore posters who clearly don't have first hand experience of boys with ADHD. See my earlier post - working life and school are thankfully very different, so it would do your ds the world of good to get a job as soon as he's 16. It really helped my son to be treated like an adult and to be able to do something productive, without getting told off! And to earn his own money of course... And in the meantime, consider pulling him out of school..

As for medication - I've heard great things, but unfortunately it didn't work for my ds as it made him feel low. However, a hobby he was good at (in his case weightlifing) also helped him develop self discipline and improved his self-esteem, so I'd recommend something like that.

@MrsWinslowsSoothingSyrup You think this is rude!! It’s what the op says is happening and we all know dc find their tribe. It’s very much a problem and of course hard working dc swerve him. The only way out is him realising what the future looks like. Sorry - but it’s true. We have 1 million Neets - it’s hardly a new or unusual situation.

get him to focus on maths and english - he needs these for next steps. if he fails his other gcses so be it. but if he fails maths and english he'll likely might need to repeat these for even basic future studies.

if he has any gcses where he can do foundation level ask them to put him on that if hes not on it already.

tell him if he does x you will give him x - has to be something he wants. needs to be short terrm ie the next maths or english tests. we reward for effort regardless of outcome.

if you can afford it get him a tutor for maths and english.