No remorse

[patate10]

We have been struggling and trying to manage dds behaviour for the last few months. Alcohol has been a real issue. I think she is very stressed about impending GCSES and her current performance is well below predictions/potential. She thinks she hates us, her siblings and her school. She has one hobby she still does but less and with less enthusiasm than before.
Saturday night was awful, she got very drunk and I insisted on coming to collect her and didn't let her stay at a friends (the plan was always for me to collect her). She accused me and her father of all sorts of horrible things, threatened souicide, begged to be put into care. Another mum called the police on us. Totally horrendous.
School have been helpful, I told them everything (party was pupil, other mum is a parent). She will see school counsellor. There has been a MASH referral, I have spoken to social services, I have a GP appointment to start mental health referral.
DD has no remorse. Not an iota. Watched her father cry and shrugged. Thinks fine night out basically. How the hell do I deal with that? We have not shouted or lectured, but have insisted on studying restarting and are monitoring screen time heavily (she will be on from am to pm if allowed). Do I just assume I can't get through to her and just try to keep her safe until she's 18 and that's that?!

How is she getting drunk? Who is buying the alcohol, where is she getting the money for alcohol from?

In some ways these issues are far easier to deal with at 15 because you do still have an element of control over things, once she is 18, working, can go out herself to get it that changes.

I’d keep on at GP, try to get as much support in place as possible, and in the meantime cut the problems off at source where possible. When alcohol is a none option she is far more likely to buy into therapy or support.

I used to teach secondary school.

GCSEs for some students are extremely stressful. Some students do attempt suicide as result of the stress.
clearly your daughter is not coping.

if she is so distressed that she is genuinely considering suicide as an option then she will not show remorse for the distress that she is causing you because that is simply a result of her own distress.

She probably is getting drunk to try and make the distress go away.

you do not need to get through to her. She knows she is failing and that your priority is her gcse results. That is almost certainly adding to the pressure and making her worse.

now you need to let her get through to you. She is not coping. Her behaviour is almost certainly a result of severe stress. She needs help to make it through year 11.

Where is the alcohol coming from?? What can you do to stop the access to that for a start?

Quite a few friends seem to be able to get hands on it - I think older brothers. We have been trying hard to not stop her going out but to try and make sure there was less chance her being offered alcohol on the outings we said she could go to. This weekend was a birthday party in a hired hall with parents present, who, I learnt after, had decided that as they hadn't organised the alcohol, it wasn't their responsibility.

I dont think she does feel great about herself and I do think she's stressed. I dont think she is suicidal (she has said she isn't after but obviously that can't necessarily be believed).
We have asked the school how to manage the stress, I think failing GCSES and repeating them would be very harmful to her self esteem at the moment.

Cut off the money. Friends may have older siblings who can buy it but they certainly won’t want to be the ones funding it for her.

I give her very little. she has a saturday job as part of her hobby but I can see all the money come in and go out, she spends it on normal teenage girl things.

Her friends seem to have endless amounts of cash and are willing to fund her.

My DC are teens now but I would not take responsibility either for other children drinking unless of course they became very ill.

Is she part of a group that drink a lot? Is she being invited to parties or just tagging along? It’s very hard OP but perhaps a trip to the GP to discuss the damage it’s doing to her? Setting very clear boundaries in pickup times etc and going into the party if she doesn’t comply? At that age there were always parents present at the parties so you shouldn’t stand out.

Please please OP be very careful where older brothers and their friends are involved, there is a lot of evidence around sexual assault where this is the case.

I don't actually think she should take the GCSEs this year. She's breaking down a bit over them. Mental health is far more important than taking her exams the exact time they were originally planned.

Is online school to take a break and then take GCSEs on a later schedule an option? Which would also remove her from being as tight knit with her toxic friend group?

Yes, her friendship group is wild, with a lot more freedom than we give her (luckily they are in a town a distance away). The parents all just think normal teenage experimentation. Invited to parties and events, for the last few months she has had to tell us clear plan (no more sleepovers after the first few incidents with booze). She thinks we are controlling and evil, Screentime is another battle. Friends allowed phones 24/7 no restrictions. We have always said phones downstairs at night.

I don’t agree with her not taking the GCSEs as she will then feel a complete failure. How about putting a plan together to take some key ones - maths, English and one she likes?

What did the police do? Would their intervention be a wake up?

I would stick to your guns re the phone, out of the room overnight. Don’t cave but try to bill it as you working together, you trying to help her. If things feel like punishments turn it around to rewards. If she has to travel to parties you are holding the cards - you can’t do it/car has an issue. I think a lot of this is feeling you have some kind of control.

You need to get her away from this group if you can. You really have my sympathies, their parents sound toxic as well.

The policewoman talked to her for ages, helped us manage trying to find anything dangerous in her room and remove it. She was very angry and upset still when the policewoman was there. She only repeated suicidal thoughts though and said there were no allegations against us. The policewoman marked her safe and well and said to get GP appointment (I have one for half term).
Yes, she needs to travel and she needs us normally to be involved in at least some of that (late trains for me are massive no, the one localish friend is allowed to come and go as she pleases on trains).
Yes, friendship group (and small school so a lot of year 11) has what I find to be a toxic culture and the parents seem to feed into that. They are very different to us.

I thought intervention would be a wake up, but, there is no remorse. A half arsed sorry when I asked her if she felt sorry, said she felt 'fine' about last weekend.

In terms of what is feasible:

parents don’t have the right to simply pull a child from GCSEs unless they de register and choose to home school which most parents do not.

if she fails maths and English she will need to resit them but other GCSEs it’s not normally possible to resit.

op, is she likely to fail maths or English? If so I would be focusing heavily on those.

students at all levels of attainment can go through this sort of crisis - if it’s a case of predicted 9s but getting 7s then I’d be backing off a lot.

OP, if you are able to keep her reasonably safe, that's all that matters.
You may not like it, but it's fine if she hates you etc - that's a normal teenage reaction, especially as you are imposing restrictions (which, obviously, it's your job as a parent to do). Ultimately, she will end up in a better situation than her over- indulged friends, but she can't understand that at the moment.

Predicted 7s - getting 6s and 5s, the 5s are in subjects she needs 6s for to go to the college she wants to go to and do the subjects she picked. I dont think failing but underperforming (and doing v little study so very frustrating as she is bright).

DM, is that you?! Thank you x

I'd lay down the law expectations.

Everything has to be earned through good behaviour or doing within expectations at school. So homework done to a good level... coming home on time... cleaning up after herself... whatever battles you want to pick.
Ensure you set achievable goals. All homework done on Friday night = able to go out or have reasonable screen time...
I do this with DS (15) and although he slipped up & tests the water I stay clear and firm. If he tries to argue, shouting or other unwanted behaviour, I call him out on it. You knew what was expected, you didn't do it end of discussion. I usually walk off as no point in engaging further.

Sometimes if he has done particularly well or been good for over a week I allow things like unlimited screen time... usually things slip so I give him a few warnings before we are back to square one.

I think it's important that she has some control and can choose the rewards on occasion to suit her own needs.