Daughter lying to me

[StarrySun]

My DD has just turned 17. She started Sixth Form in September and has fallen in with a new crowd of friends - who we don’t know. She’s always been loving and hardworking but her behaviour has totally transformed.

She’s started going out every weekend and staying out all hours. She’s become rude and disrespectful, insisting she doesn’t have to tell us where she is or when she’s coming home. I track her or send messages when I’m worried about how she’s going to get home and she responds by telling me to leave her alone or by switching off her phone. I’m losing sleep with worry - I know she’s nearly an adult but I don’t think it’s safe to be walking around late at night and this all feels so sudden.

I suspect she’s sleeping with a boy in the group who she insists is not a boyfriend. He’s been at our house a few times and she’s been shut in her bedroom with him ‘watching a film’ - for hours at a time! I find it extremely disrespectful she’d do this in our house when the boy has barely said hello (and it seems like a casual relationship. The last time I asked if he was her boyfriend, she said they weren’t dating.)

Last night I could see she was at his house. She texted at midnight to say she was going to stay at a nearby friend’s house - who we don’t know - so I said ok, but text me when you’re there. She sent a message as she was leaving his house and on arriving at the ‘friend’s’ house - which immediately raised my suspicions as she is rarely so cooperative. Then she immediately switched off her phone so her location is no longer showing.

My instinct tells me the whole thing is a ruse and she’s back at his house.

Any advice? I feel like my relationship is completely breaking down with my daughter. She used to talk to me a lot - now she looks at me with contempt and tells me I’m controlling for not giving her total independence. Do I accept she’s nearly an adult and let her do as she pleases - and stay out all night as long as she’s honest about her whereabouts?

She had a lovely boyfriend for over a year. We knew him and felt he was a calming influence. His parents didn’t allow them to spend the night together and we felt the same way. Now it feels like she’s gone off the rails, is constantly late for school because she’s tired and always online chatting with her new bunch of friends - and she’s falling behind with her A-levels.

I don’t feel ready to completely cut the apron strings - but it feels like the more we try to set reasonable boundaries, the more she lies and is turning away from us.

Yikes. This is so hard. Someone once said to me, strict parents create sneaky kids.

I'm afraid your daughter has picked up on your disapproval and is now doing her best to hide from you.

If you want to retain any element of control over this situation you're going to have to get her on side, gain her trust again I'm afraid. Or not, and let her learn from her mistakes. Sorry OP, I have a tween and I'm dreading this ..

The thing is we haven’t been especially strict, allowing her to go out late. I’m starting to think we should have been stricter earlier on with clear consequences for her lack of respect.

And re her male ‘friend’, I haven’t insisted on an open bedroom door, which is what other parents might do, I know.

Can you have a calm conversation with her, not about criticism or admonishment , about boundaries. Reach some compromise, studies, being home earlier during the week etc. Weekends are her own as long as she lets you know where she is. Is she on contraception?

I think that rather than being more strict and insisting in the door being open i would be tempted to take her out somewhere neutral, if she’ll come with you, even MacDonalds will do.

Ask her what she wants. Does she want to be able to stay out at the weekend?

I think if she’s seeing someone and she lets you know where she is and keeps her phone on, then it’s probably not ideal but I would accept it. She’s not suddenly going to stop having sex afterall. She’ll just be resentful, lie and have sex when you’re not there.

I take it you’ve already talked to her about STIs and contraception before now?

Also ask her what her plans are after Sixth Form. If she’s planning to go to Uni or do an apprenticeship and she wants to go out at the weekend then she needs to start to give herself enough time to study and sleep during the week.

I’d also recommend reading Untangled by Dr Lisa Damour if you haven’t read it already.

@GagMeWithASpoon Since she insists this boy is nothing more than a friend, I think she’d be really angry if I asked about contraception.
But I know she understands the importance of safe sex - we talked about it when she was younger and more receptive to parental advice!
@SleafordSods Yes, I think she’s not going to suddenly start behaving but I just feel so uncomfortable condoning what looks like casual sex at her age. I am horrified at the thought if I’m honest. But also mourning our past relationship, it feels like such a sudden change.
I haven’t read that book and will look out for it.

I know it seems like you are condoning casual sex but lots of Women do engage in casual sex. She’s not meeting men in clubs and going back to their house, she has one friend who she’s shagging from what you’ve described. It might not be the relationship you want her to have, and she may have some self esteem issues if her bar is that low but being strict or cross won’t enhance your relationship, if anything you’d be in danger of her moving out permanently to his house.

I totally get that you’re grieving the relationship you once had too.

My DD is a year older and for a long while I’ve tried to have in mind the relationship I want with her long term.

My own DM was very angry and never seemed to understand me much. There is obviously a lot more of a backstory with me and my DM but we are LC now and I didn’t want that for me and my DD.

I'm not an expert on teenagers, but I think tracking her is unacceptable. If you make it clear that you have stopped doing this (and won't do it again in future), it might help to gain her confidence and give you a good starting point to have an adult conversation with her.

Just wanted to add that if you think she’s going to get angry, this is why I suggested talking somewhere neutral. It’s far harder for her to be mean or shout at you if she’s in a Starbucks and she’s needs you to drive her back home again.

Having reread this post I think you also need to start being nicer about her “DFriend”. It’s very obvious from your posts that you disapprove, she will undoubtedly have picked up on this.

Is it the boy you disapprove of? The relationship or her current behaviour becauae from what you’ve posted, you hardly know him?

Many DParents even track their DC in Uni. You’d be surprised how many do.

The first thing you need to do is stop tracking her - it needs to be a mutual decision or not at all.
Then discuss what boundaries you feel acceptable and the consequences if she doesn’t stick to them.
It also helped me and my son to discuss how we wanted the next 5 years to look like….. as in it’s highly likely she’ll stay living with you for the foreseeable future so how do you make it for both your sakes so you’re not falling out?

Don’t make it about the boy. Just contraception and safety in general. That she can cometo you if she needs to, and you can just signpost her to services if needed. If she ever shares anything, just listen. The focus now should be that you bring her close again , with some focus on her studies too.

You need to regain her trust and make sure she just understands you want her to be safe. So that means both going out and safe sex. If she is post 16 you just have to accept it and support her. She can probably feel your disapproval of her new choice of boy? You are praising the old boyfriend, don’t do that. Just enquire in a friendly manner about her new friend and that he seems nice etc. you need to break the ice here. Then once you have her trust back start chatting about A level studies etc and managing time. They have got to understand that the choices they make now have very long term financial consequences for their life as a whole but it has to be explained calmly to them when they are in a right frame of mind. It’s a confusing time for them especially if their emotions are all over the place and they are trying to break free from you and become independent. Independence is good as long as it’s safe.

At this age, if you set boundaries that she sees as controlling she will simply lie to you and yes your relationship will break down.

at 17 she is over the legal age to have sex. I understand you feel it is disrespectful to do it in your house but you also seem to be upset that she is staying over at her boyfriends (which is logically what you want, no? If she wants to have sex and you are saying not in your house then she will do it at her boyfriends)

tracking her and messaging her late at night is very intrusive, sorry.

I think you need to think about what you want to happen.

there are boundaries you can set and expect her to stick to - eg no sex in our house. But do think through the consequences - she will start spending a lot more time at her boyfriends and won’t be in your house as much. Your relationship will suffer simply because she won’t be around as much.

if you want to set a rule that her tracking is always on then you can try to set that but I suspect you will find that her phone “runs out of charge” on a very, very, regular basis. It’s generally accepted between adults that tracking is mutual consent thing. You can try to enforce it in her but if she doesn’t want it she’ll get round it. Worst case she gets another phone.

I suggest you think about the long term, what you actually want for her. Is she going to uni? If so, start having conversations about where to apply and what grades she needs. Talk about how you will support her while she’s there. Explore open days and take her to them.

if she does extra curriculars - dance, music, support them. Turn up to her stuff.

I don’t even know the boy so I haven’t had the chance to decide if I like him or not. We’ve said hello, I’ve glimpsed his face maybe twice!
She told me a while ago he hadn’t asked her out ‘yet’. I feel like he’s probably having his cake and eating it, and I’m sad about that for her sake. I’m worried she’s being used really, she’s still so young and is impressionable.

Tracking has always been about safety only. Don’t most parents set this up when their kids first get phones? It seems pretty normal … the youngsters all seem to track each other too! We have a family account and it’s been a progression since they were much younger. I’m not constantly tracking her … but it gives me peace of mind if she doesn’t answer her phone to know where she is.

She’s 17. Stop tracking her - she obviously hates it now. She might start to respect you if you start to trust her.

Yes, most parents set it up when their child gets their first phone. It’s normal to track a pre-teen or younger teen.

when they hit the point of going to all night raves and having boyfriends they do want some privacy.

she is a teen. She will have relationships you disapprove of. Most of them will last only a short time as she will realise her mistakes and sort them out herself. Have confidence in her.

She sounds really immature and lacking in self confidence if these new friends and casual boyfriend have so much sway.

All you can focus on is communication and her self esteem. There is no need for arguments or framing her current choices as disrespectful but I think k you are going to have work on your approach too. I wouldn’t dream of insisting on door open or thinking that was ok when a boyfriend visits - that is normal not liberal - I don’t track my children and never have but expect messages. My son can do what he wants at that age, I will support him with anything he needs, discuss how to succeed and next steps but whether he goes out, stays in and works or doesn’t I leave to him. I did to his siblings too - they are at uni at 18 and it goes them no favours to have all that freedom at once.

Do some nice things together, insist on kindness but give lots too.

Saying she is immature seemed mean - it’s not a criticism - they are young and need to get through these phases:)

I think these are both the wrong battles to pick. I'm older than your daughter, but young enough that smart phones were absolutely ubiquitous when I was in my late teens. My parents never would have dreamed of tracking me or my sister. It's a huge invasion of privacy for someone who is almost an adult.

Similarly the sex - they're over the age of consent and although you may not like the casual nature of their relationship, it's not as though she's matching with complete randoms on dating apps and dragging them back home all the time. Maybe he's stringing her along, maybe not... But unless she opens up the conversation with you, I'm afraid it's not really your business.

I think you could absolutely ask him to join you for dinner and try to get to know him a bit - it's totally reasonable to want to know someone who's spending so much time in your house. But beyond that, this is probably one of those lessons your daughter needs to learn for herself. Odds are that in five years' time he'll be a distant memory for her anyway.

Focus on your relationship with her - quality time, support as she plans her next steps after sixth form. But beyond that, give her the space she needs to manage her own life.

Please stop tracking your daughter. You can’t stop her having sex, if you come down on her like a tonne of bricks you’ll only push her away. I wasn’t super thrilled when I found out DS was sexually active but I made sure to speak to him about contraception. I was a teenager when I had him so I really wanted to push the point home.

I have found that when I’m more outwardly relaxed about things he comes to me more to talk. He’s good at letting me know where he is/what he’s doing but I think he’s only good because I give him the freedom to do (almost) whatever he wants. I can’t keep him at home all weekend so I don’t try to, but since i’ve stopped nagging he chooses to spend time with us which feels better in a way, rather than forced fun

So your response to me suggesting you're too strict is 'we should have been stricter earlier on'

Nope. I reiterate. Strict parents create sneaky kids. Having sex isn't a sin. Nor should you put your own issues about sex onto your daughter. As long as she's being sensible and in control, she's doing nothing wrong and you need to get a grip of your own squeamishness.

Perhaps you should reflect on why you have an issue with her becoming sexually active. She's almost an adult and you won't be able to have any say in her relationships once she's 18.

If you want to maintain a relationship with your daughter, stop the judgment, start offering kindness and support and hope you can maintain your relationship as she transitions into adulthood.

I would think the tracking needs to stop, from there you can build a relationship of trust with each other.

Thank you for your input. Being a parent isn't easy - my daughter may be nearly an adult but she is still living under our roof. I do think kids, even 17-year olds, need some boundaries … I feel like it’s my responsibility to know where she is and that’s she’s safe, for now anyway. As much as I can. I am kind and supportive and encourage her to be open with us. She knows we love her dearly and want the best for her, but the change in her behaviour - since meeting a new bunch of friends - has been sudden and unexpected. She is being extremely rude, lying to us, inconsiderate and selfish. Is it really so much to ask to expect her to share her plans? I have an older daughter who I’ve never felt the need to track - because she tells me the truth and I know I can trust her.

And yes, I do have an issue with my just 17-year-old bringing a ‘friend’ into our house and not even introducing him to us… and having sex while we’re downstairs. Surely that’s not unusual? I’m not sure how that makes me squeamish.

Anyway, I’ve taken on board the comments about tracking. It feels like a difficult thing to give up because it’s like a safety net. I’m not sure I’d be able to tolerate the sleepless nights wondering if she’s safely in someone’s house or still out and about when it’s 2am and she hasn’t said what she’s doing. It’s hard.