What do you do when they won’t admit to something you know they did?

[Tacocatgoatcheesepizza]

I am absolutely gutted this morning.
I keep a stash of emergency cash in my jewellery box - there was about £70 there. It’s gone.
DS13 admitted straight away to taking £10 a little while ago but won’t admit he took any more. It obviously wasn’t me or dh, and our other ds is only 10 and this just wouldn’t even be on his radar. Even ds13 admits there’s not really another explanation for where it is, but continues to deny it was him.

He is diagnosed dyspraxic, has some sensory issues and is almost certainly somewhere on the autistic spectrum but we have not persued a diagnosis for this. He gets £5 pocket money a week which might sound like not very much but really he only needs to use it to buy himself a drink/snack if he’s out with his friends which is only a couple of times a month. We continue to buy everything else.

A couple of months ago he basically stopped eating breakfast and often won’t have tea, so if I had to hazard a guess, it has been spent on buying snacks to and from school.

i feel like I’m going mad - there is really no other possible answer, but what do you do if they just won’t admit it?

It looks like you're not reading the responses of PP.
If you can't prove he took £70 & he hasn't admitted to it, so why would you punish him for it?

What about if he wanted to see friends more often? Would you give him the money to socialise or would it still need to come out of his fiver?
Personally I’d be looking at why he felt he had to take it in the first place.

This happened to me once. My mother wore me down and forced me to admit taking the money. I hadn’t taken the money. I was accused of taking money from her account at the atm and she was very vocal about it, even involving school. In the end I admitted taking it, despite not having touched her bank card, because I just wanted it to stop. I would say tread very carefully, you say it can only have been him but unless you saw him take it, or have subsequently found it in his possession or evidence of him having spent it, you actually do not know he took it.

Over 30 years later I am still affected by what happened, I really struggle with feeling guilt when something has happened even though I know I haven’t done it.

Be careful with the 'you can know from their face', especially if the lad is ND. I am ND myself and my mother used to stare into my face and then say she could 'tell I'd done....(whatever) from my expression. But I'd often laugh or smirk when NOT GUILTY just because I couldn't stand being stared at. So I'd get punished for all sorts because she would swear that she knew from my face whether I was guilty or not.

I’d say if it wasn’t you or me or dad, it appears we’ve been burgled. I’ll call the police and ask them to call in and investigate. They’ll no doubt want to talk to you so stay in this weekend.

Is the most likely thing that he “only” took £10 at a time so in his head this is much less bad than taking £70 and he therefore won’t admit to it. Whatever, he shouldn’t take your money, and the consequence is he doesn’t get to do any unsupervised spending, he can’t handle it.

I promise I’m not in denial about teenagers - I was a smoker and a drinker and a bit of a trouble maker. But there are absolutely no signs of anything like this - in a lot of ways he is quite a young 13yr old. He has taken food before, chocolate bars etc and he just leaves the wrappers shoved into various places in his room. I do check his room fairly regularly because he doesn’t tidy it very well and I am a bit of a neat freak.

Let go of the need to punish and see it as part if a bigger picture. As pp have pointed out your disappointment is quite powerful.

In that case @Tacocatgoatcheesepizza I would apply the consequence. Calmy and understandingly, but explain again, if he'd owned up, XXX wouldn't be happening now (losing his phone, no going out for a week, or whatever consequence you feel is suitable). ~~

I HATE punishing my DC but it's so necessary because I want them to have a good moral compass. Something that doesn't seem to be coming naturally to them!

My autistic son used to steal money from me and lie about it. He grew out of it.

It's very hard to deal with something you can't prove.

I went down the ' we can't afford that as someone took the x pounds i was going to use to buy that" route

I also used to give an amnesty. Like this has gone missing. I am devastated. I need it for this. Could everyone go have a look and see if I've accidentally left it in thier rooms, or somewhere silly. If you find it just pop it on the side here, I'm heading to the garden to weed Very often it magically appeared 'found' in a silly location.

Im pretty sure everyone knew what was really happening. This doesn't work if spent.

Also if you are sure he took it I would try to work out why he might have done this as it definitely seems out of character for him. He is reaching an age where being like the rest of the friendship group becomes very important ... especially if a kid is a bit 'different' in any way. They become more aware of the differences. Friends they had at primary school also become more aware and can start distancing themselves. This can impact; n various ways. It becomes more important to impress. To wear the same 'cool' clothes as the rest of the kids. Or buy friendship. I would be backing off but watching carefully. Our Dgs is dyspraxic and although not diagnosed region the spectrum. He seemed to cope ok, had good friendship group ext. Seemed no problems. Hard working at school, popular with teachers but went off the rails in 6th Form. Dropped out of A levels, started smoking weeds, staying out late. At 20 getting back on track but looking back DD says the great friends he'd had at primary started drifting away about aged 14. Dd was grateful he made new friends who seemed ok but hindsight is a great thing and she now believes he began suffering from low self esteem at that time. She wishes we all had seen this we may have been able to serve the awful time between 17 and 19.. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree but it's always worth being extra vigilant when you suspect a normally good boy of suddenly stealing, especially if on the spectrum 💐

I think he’s probably taken £10 every couple of weeks - which is why he doesn’t think he’s taken £70

at around that age my son used my card with my permission to buy a PS game - he then proceeded to spend over £500 over the next month buying stuff for the games as the system kept the card details, I only realised at the end I’d the month. He swore at the time he’s been hacked and he didn’t spend it, the guy at the bank explained it was definitely him due to how the game/rewards work and still to this day 12 years later he swears he didn’t spend that much.

I didn’t do any specific consequences, seeing how upset I was and us not being able to afford any extra stuff for a long time after was enough.

Whilst it might be a white lie, I think that my second approach is teaching them about money. “£xx went missing so I can no longer stretch to ABC.”

It might be something small like not springing for snacks and drinks at the cinema a couple of times in the holidays because you’ve “been left a little short this month.” It’s a way of backing down from the disagreement now (as you aren’t getting anywhere) but also pointing out the consequences.

Edited to say this in response to @BuddhaAtSea (the quote disappeared!)

Does he normally lie? If not, I would accept his answer and tell him you believe him and move on from this. (It goes without saying that you should not punish him.) He will probably appreciate and be grateful for your trust in him and I doubt it will happen again.

All I would say, is that in a similar situation I was convinced it must have been my teen but actually the money turned up elsewhere and had nothing to do with them. There is never one single explanation. I was so so glad I didn’t say anything because the trust would have been broken. This isn’t like a teacher-pupil relationship, it’s more sensitive and important, so I don’t think you can take the same approach.

I think it's pretty common but quite shocking when it happens to you. Likelihood is he's taken odd 10.00 over time and spent it on snacks for self and friends.its a horrible feeling to not trust the people you live with. I would leave it as you are really disappointed about the 10.00 and try and get him to talk about why he felt the need. Interesting looking back and talking to my now adult children,I should've focussed more on the talking and why rather than the sanction. I'm quite sad about that actually.

He's not a good boy if he stole £70, spent it on snacks and then refused to eat his meals, then lied about it.

Edited to say: and that's on top of his behaviour towards his brother!!

My son (who is neurotypical) lies a lot - I've got so bored of it. I just say now - I know the truth as you do - and I give the consequences.

I would want to know the underlying reason for stealing - my son is addicted to sugar and takes small amounts of money for sweets.

btw. please don't say he is a 'bit autistic'. If you think he is ND - please get him on the pathway for diagnosis.

I have to say - my autistic daughter is the one who never lies so it's not a ND trait. most autistic children are painfully honest.

What did the 10yro say when you questioned him about it, or did you just assume it was the eldest? Maybe the younger one took it knowing that the blame would be put on his brother, so saw it as a way to get even for his brother being mean to him.

Or has the ten year old had friends around to play who might have 'found' your stash?

That's a really fair point. You are right. I never ' knew' from something like that. I knew because he'd look really ashamed and nod when admitting to himself, not me, what he'd done. And I was never angry. But you are right, maybe skip that comment and just say, if you did take more than £10, can you say why?

I would agree it’s very possible he’s being taking it £10 at a time so is struggling to see that he has actually taken £70.
100% DH hasn’t borrowed it?

My nephew used to steal from us and nothing, nothing would persuade him to admit it. We didn't ban him from the house for various reasons but we made sure we locked everything tempting away. Of course that wasn't fulproof and things would go missing and we would blame him, then sometimes find them..

This stuff plays with your head. I do sympathise. Couple of thoughts:

For some children, they will be stealing to impress other kids or because they are being bullied, so check this out first.

You can't trust him so keep your money safe. Easier said than done of course.

Don't beat yourself up if you inadvertently leave money around and he takes it. It is very difficult to be this vigilant all the time.

Stay calm.

Don't enter debate. Tell him the money has gone and you believe he took it. Tell him you will apologise if it turns out you were wrong.

Tell him you are sorry he was put in the situation of finding the money as you know he can't cope. This way you retain the power in the relationship/situation when actually he may be feeling powerful. This takes the wind out of his sails.

Try not to leave him unsupervised.

Sorry, it's hard.

Stalemates can't be broken through more of the same approach. I used to steal money from my parents, and it was because I didn't feel like I could ask them for things directly (that wasn't true, but it was how I felt, so I acted accordingly).

I'd get BOTH kids together and explain that because money's gone missing somehow, you're going to stop keeping cash in the house.

If someone took it, that's a sign that they can't control their impulses even though they know it's wrong. You're the parent, so it's your job not to set them up to fail. And that means you're going to take away the temptation until they're both old enough and capable enough to make the right decisions.

And then immediately afterward, I'd have a wider conversation about what it's like to want more money for things – what they'd buy if they had extra money, if other kids at school have more pocket money than them, if they feel like they can come to you and ask if they need extra for something. Make it clear it's OK to ask, and if you can't give them extra, you'll find a solution together.

If money becomes an emotive or shameful topic, you're likely to get more of the same behaviour – so this could be a chance to change the unspoken or subconscious conversation about it in the household as a whole.

The boy is good. This behaviour is not good.

As soon as we start teaching kids that they're good or bad as people, there's no point to any of it any more.