I often want to move out of the family home myself to avoid my teenage daughter

[Despairingmother]

Hello all,

This is my first post but have been reading mumsnet posts since I was pregnant with said teenager.

The last 18 months have been very difficult with our now 13 year old daughter. She has been in trouble at school over social media messages containing sexually explicit context she has been forwarded and forwarded on herself (we try to block inappropriate stuff as much as we can) and regulary self harms to cope with her intense emotions (surface level cuts that heal without bad scarring). DH and I removed her phone from her for several months which led to a mental breakdown and threats of suicide. CAMHs were involved for a few weeks but discharged her after being satisfied she wasn’t seriously suicidal. She is on a waiting list to be assessed for ADHD and Autism as advised by the school, it’s hard to tell what are signs of autism and what is normal but rocky teenage development. Jury’s out on that one so far.

Someone at school gave her a phone to use and after she threatened to physically fight me for it we agreed to give her old phone back with our controls. She won’t let us check it but I try to keep a presence on Snapchat, the only social media we allow. I’m not comfortable with any of this but I have no choice.
She does well at school but struggles with maintaining friendships. She finds talking to boys easier but I found her posting salacious but no nudity videos on Snapchat; I worry she is lonely and trying to attract the wrong sorts. She is not apologetic and won’t discuss it even when I frame it as will you be comfortable with the images being out there when you are older etc.

DH is more relaxed than I am for sure, I am a naturally anxious person at heart and I worry she will sneak out in the night and get into trouble with boys or be assaulted. She hasn’t done this but it’s my fear. She is often very rude and cold, many times I wish I could leave our family home just to get away from the atmosphere which reminds me of my childhood home and an abusive relationship I was in when I was younger. I know I can’t leave and opt out of it all but it’s so hard living with the tension. I do my best to support her and encourage her.

How will I survive the next 5 years? Will she come out intact?

This is far beyond the realm of normal teen difficulties OP.

I think she needs therapy. I think that also family therapy would help.

that assessment needs to be pushed through as a matter of priority. Is private an option?

how supportive is the school?

She needs some sort of mental health support. Could you afford private therapy/counselling for her? The cutting is a cry for help, and whilst her other behaviour isn't acceptable the therapy should help with that. I wouldn't be allowing snapchat, though (it is one of the worst social media platforms, if not the worst). I'd be installing something like Qustudio, and making her aware of it, but it stops her being able to use things like snapchat or look at inappropriate things online until she is mature enough to understand what is and isn't appropriate to send. She is still very much a child at 13 and it's your responsibiltiy to be stopping doing things online that could harm her.

She has always refused to engage with therapy and we know from experience that if we put further restrictions on her phone usage she will be given another one from someone at school, as this is what happened before. I had some emergency counselling last summer when it was at its worse. Those around me who love us all have suggested I need to exert less control and doing this has made things better some of the time.

I have been through similar and one of the hardest things was when I spoke about what I was going through, people always offered advice to help my dc and not me. I remember going on rightmove looking for flats.
It took a lot for me to get help, but I eventually got some cbt through iapts, which did help me.
Your dc has got a lot of growing up to and will need you to be strong. Please take care of yourself.

The school made the referral for assessment but otherwise I haven’t had contact with them much recently as she is doing well there.

What is her school attendance like?

Can you go private? I worked as an autism key worker which is a role set up to keep young people with autism and or learning disabilities out of mental health institutions, and I worked with a girl who could’ve been your daughter. It is incredibly hard and I’m sorry. Taking her phone is not the answer though. Are school supportive? Maybe seek out your authorities autism and learning disability keyworking team, they may be able to help even before she has a diagnosis. CAMHS are so hit and miss it’s awful. Does she have an EHCP? School need to be supporting more and putting in interventions and support, do they have a decent pastoral team? It will be a battle but you will all be okay

You can block social media sites on the IP address at home, like in workplaces where you can't access some sites. Just allow access to WhatsApp where are least you can't add random strangers. Sorry you're going through this.

She obviously has some time off when she had her breakdown (I don’t know what else to call it) but otherwise her attendance is excellent. She plays for two football teams, and is rising up through martial arts, she’s amazing at sport and I spend a lot of time taking her to matches and practice to keep her busy but dreading summer holidays when this all stops. She says herself that she needs to be occupied at all times or her thoughts turn dark. I think she’s very lonely a lot of the time but won’t spend time with us much except for mealtimes.

I have heard from other parents that going private doesn’t open the doors the nhs diagnosis pathway does. To be fair on CAMHs they signposted me to multiple local groups who could help but she will not engage with any of it when suggested. I cannot force her physically to go. I should add much of her behaviour reminds me of myself when a teenager and I had a decade of chaos but came through it. I’m just terrified she won’t come through it.

Oh dear, I do feel for you. Your daughter is at a sort of crossroads age. She's hormonal, a young insecure teenager who is pushing all the buttons and all the boundaries. She isn't sure what she wants , she lacks confidence , she wants to be liked, she wants to do exactly what she wants, she wants all her own way , she wants everything now, she knows best, she'll fight you all the way when you say no, she undermines you and bullys you. And just doesnt get it whenbyou say no. Yep, most mothers of girls have experienced these behaviours. Lots of children of late primary age don't have the freedoms that we adults had as youngsters. They are cossetted more, parents are more afraid maybe because of pressures of the Internet, of who's about and kids kind of get thrust from this close world into a more grown up world which they simply can't handle. It sounds that you allowed the phone etc but are now trying to reign her use in. Most schools have a policy no mobile phones to be used in school. You need to take this phone off your daughter and reset it with yourself as administrator, you bought it you control it. Snapchat is very problematical, I'd get rid of that, its the source of your problems because the images are gone before you see them. Allow FB if you must but ensure that you control the account and you are friended to her. You need to get her to realise that you are in a trust building situation, she doesn't have to fight you. The more you can trust her the more freedom she'll get similarly the more respect she gives you and others the more people will like her. If she doesnt play ball she's going to get into trouble, this is clear at school. I think you'll find things will slowly improve but you've got to be firm and fair. Yep, they can be rude and pretty horrible at this age but you can get control. If she doesn't behave there are consequences. Make sure you and you dh are good united role models for her. Good luck, all been there!

This. Not to sound like a broken record (sorry!) but snapchat is so dangerous, especially when she's starting to post things like that. She'd still have ways to talk to people without having snapchat if you allowed whatsapp. I understand not wanting to fight her on everything but this is for her safety.

Could you sign her up for some sports camps during the summer, so that she's got a bit of structure and she's not at a loose end?

Look at the NHS right to choose pathway for the ASD and ADHD referrals. It's completely free and basically just skipping the general waitlists because lots of people don't know about it, but it's not got the issues of going private. Held Health has a good guide on how to go down the pathway (you'll just need to contact your GP and let them know that you want to go down this, and send the forms from the website over) and a 2-8 week wait time currently. Right to Choose CYP Autism (ASD) & ADHD assessments with Held Health in support of the NHS — Held Health

Snapchat is the worst possible social media to allow her to have.

If she won't allow you to check the phone then she simply cannot have it. She's shown you already she can't be trusted. She's 13.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. My biggest problem has been keeping a phone from her, she gets hold of an old phone from someone at school when we have removed hers. Snapchat is indeed awful but it’s how she communicates with her friends she is tentatively forming bonds with at school. When we removed her phone last summer she threatening suicide and stopped eating. It’s not as simple as taking it from her again or removing Snapchat. I wish it was and we were fully in charge and called all the shots with her but we have tried this before.

just to add it might be worth looking into PMDD

It won’t work it will make her worse, you just have to try and have strict boundaries in place with it. The phone isnt the issue, it’s her mental health

Sorry also to say - not private for diagnosis, it’s pointless but private for therapeutic support, in my experience is much better than NHS and will be able to access quickly

I am in a similar boat. It would be great if the rules and consequences worked instead of making it worse. I don't have the solution as in the pit too. But check out naomi fisher and her work on low demand approaches. She is amazing. It needs to be about collaborative problem solving and communication. If that is possible. Which it isn't always here. Good luck