How much more can I help 17 year old? Carrot or the stick I suppose.

[LeylaOfCircassia]

17 year old is a nice kid, has a great group of friends, and like a lot of teens they are his main focus.

His GCSEs did not go as planned (all 4s) which meant he couldn't do A levels (did zero revision, so I would say he is capable and could have got a raft of 5-6s with revision)/ A lot of messing about with college who intimated he was on a BTEC Level 3 (repeatedly referred to in emails by me) but it transpired it was a BTEC Certificate, so equivalent to 1 A level. They said he could do an A level if he did an assignment that proved he was up to it, he did it, the teacher said yes and he was so pleased, even though it was only one (alongside BTEC), then radio silence and then they said no. He was deeply unhappy, where we were worried about him and he ended up dropping out.

He was given alternatives that would be a second chance before we agreed for him to leave. Get a job, go back in Sept for a level 2/3, or he could distance study for A levels with an online provider - it was made clear that this would be the far far harder option but that we would get a tutor for each subject once a month until year 13 and I would be on hand to help (not a teacher, but with organisation, revision etc).

He opted for the A levels and I have been very on it, trying to test him, making him revision cards and being available to use them. We have visited some unis (yes, i know none of this sounds like uni material, but he wanted to visit and each time we do he steps up the work). He now is refusing a tutor. He makes notes, but then never revisits the material. He does the minimum e.g. read the course materials and make some notes. When I asked him a basic 1 marker from an exam paper he couldn't do it. He is struggling with no peers, though he tries to mirror his friends timetables to hang out in breaks, and no actual teacher - there is a tutor but they are 'available' office hours and it is on you to reach out.

He has now done no work for over 10 days. On Wedn last week I took him for lunch, to try to talk to him in a calm space and I laid out the options.

1. if he wants to finish these A levels with decent grades (we are saying BBB-CCC here) it would be better to have them than not have them for whatever the next step is, plus I am paying for them. BUT, at this stage he will need to follow my rules and what I say to the letter and we will get through together.
2. if he quits (again), he gets a job until Sept and goes back for level 2/3 Btec in a classroom.
3. he stops and applies for an apprenticeship (I have found 17 locally in different spaces). He won't look at them.
4. he stops and tries for the army/navy/RAF or even a firefighter - I am at the stage of believing the 'born in X, made in the navy' ads. This isn't what I would like for him, but would support him if he wanted this.
5. He will only apply online for jobs and not go into places so has been unsuccessful for even a part time role.
6. Get a job and look at an Access Course at 19 if he is still interested (I went to uni as a mature student and it was the best thing)

He has no idea what he wants to do, or currently any abstract ambition e.g. make money, make a difference - just nothing.

Over lunch he sat with his head down the whole time and did not engage at all. I said he could think it over until the weekend and then would need to make a decision. Today, he is still in bed, yesterday I suggested he type up his notes and annotate them and then we can see what we have - he did nothing.

I've seen lots of comments on here around teens not pulling their weight etc where posters have said 'I simply wouldn't allow that', but how can I make him actually get out of bed and do something. How?

When asked, he does do chores, he goes to the gym with his dad a few nights a week and plays for a football team. I do think he is a little depressed but he wont accept my offer of counselling either from a careers perspective or a wider perspective.

DH thinks we need tough love now, but he has been caught smoking in the house a few times and this resulted in being grounded by DH for a bit and that just seems to set him back with the studies, he retreats back into himself and gets out of habit.

The only things we can do are:

• remove his pocket money (£50 per month) and give him money to travel to football but no more
• ground him - seems punitive, especially as being away from peers is one of the issues
• will give him more chores etc but that doesnt really help with everything else

I don't feel that we can just wait it out whilst he finds himself. Tough love results in him cocooning even more, the carrot he ignores.

Sounds like he is burnt out from school and GCSEs. I felt like this at A-level, too. I did badly in my first yr of them but pulled it together for my second yr. I needed a year of no study really. Maybe he does too.

Personally I would take away all expectations of study until next academic yr in Sept. It clearly isn’t working at the moment. Give him two options of what to do in Sept, both of them based out of the house. No more studying by himself.

For the remainder of this year I’d expect him to be pulling his weight around the house, beyond just keeping his bedroom tidy. Incl proper cooking from scratch and cleaning (may as well learn this now while he has time off). I’d also get him to choose a weekly volunteering job, purely to keep him in a semi routine of going out to work. They won’t need qualifications so he will be able to get one.

If he is interested in football, would he be open to doing some kids sport camp volunteering? It may lead into paid coaching. And can be a route into spending some time working overseas which is really fun when you’re late teens / early 20s.

I would also have a requirement that he goes to therapy once a week. Maybe he will accept this if the upside is he doesn’t have to study anymore.

And finally if you haven’t done already I would read up about ADHD in case you see some parallels between it and your son. It doesn’t always show up in a physically hyperactive way, as used to be the stereotype.

you could be writing about my daughter - she left Y13 at college in January with the agreement being she’d work until September and then return for a less academic level 3 course. As it turns out she got an apprenticeship and is currently enjoying it and at least willingly attending every day (which wasn’t the case with college) I’m hopeful she’ll stick with it, but she knows the option of college in September is still available to her.

The difference to her personally has been massive - she’s so much happier around the house, has a much more structured routine and has been talking about going travelling when she’s finished the apprenticeship. It’s the most enthusiastic I’ve ever seen her for anything!

Good luck to you and your son - I really do feel for you x

It’s so hard but you really really need to stop saving him. I was you( kind of) and nearly drove myself into a nervous breakdown over it.
I threw my hands up and said “ I can’t help you anymore. No one is coming. Work it out for yourself. When you are ready to put some effort into something let me know and I will help where I can.”
I also stopped paying for nights out, extra data, basically everything but food.
I think I was Mum Who Will Save Me for so long he just didn’t feel like he had to try.
My kid may or may not finish his BTEC. If he fails or gets kicked out for non attendance he will have to find work. I will feed him but that’s all.
Im done.
The more you research, think, worry for them, the more they abdicate responsibility. As a generation of parents I think we haven’t helped our children to be independent and I include myself in that.

I've shared these thoughts and ideas with DH and he is in agreement that we step back and hand over some of our household responsibilities to him as the 'almost' adult in the house and tell him that for Sept he should either be back at college, in a job or apprenticeship and if he needs our help with that he should let us know.

I have also pointed out two places we know the people who would be glad to have him volunteer.

For now we are keeping the following:

• the monthly allowance, because of travel for football which we want to encourage and given he feels isolated we don't want him to not be able to see his friends if he has no money at all. We will make some of this contingent on some of the chores (those we consider beyond just being a member of the household)
• gym membership, he has had a historically bumpy relationship with his dad (DH) and this is something they bond over and do together and is a way for DH and he to communicate with him without pressure (also hopeful that keeping fit might knock the bloody smoking on the head)

I have also taken a look at the ADHD stuff and shared a little snapshot with DH and there are some behaviours in there that may fit. Going to try and get the above going, then will broach with DS to see what he thinks about an assessment.

Its fear. Fear of change, fear of failure, fear of being left behind. He can see what he is doing isn't working but doesn't know how to fix it, and even if he could isn't sure if he could actually do it. Its much easier for him to say I won't, I can't, and not engage than it is is to say yeah, sorry, I mucked up and lose face. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Find things he can be successful at, volunteering would be great. Is there a family friend that could do with a hand digging the garden over, sorting the shed out? Stuff that requires willing labour but is straight forward. Not much pressure but a high chance of success. He'll get there.

Sometimes it takes longer to realise what you want to do. My son went to Sixth form for social reasons then realised that he was studying completely the wrong things and went to college. He now has a firm plan, super motivated and even self studies - something that I’ve never seen before. When my son left Sixth Form, his confidence was on the floor and he felt that he was taking a step back doing a level 2 qualification but it changed his life and his confidence is back in spades plus more.

If the volunteering is related to his interest in humanities or music then it may help him learn about jobs in those industries which will lead to a plan of study. For example I know that my local museum has lots of volunteers and those volunteers could know people that match Ds’ specific interests.

Doing some housework and gardening while attending football and gym are good ideas to keep the endorphins going and brain ticking. If he’s so inclined, I would encourage him to do some light DIY like painting too.

You should probably step back from trying to managing his studies and offering carrots or wielding sticks but I think it is a mistake to step back completely from helping him make a plan. He’s 17, he doesn’t know what options are out there for careers or educational paths. He struggles with self motivation and probably has low self esteem after his GCSE results and now he is struggling with A levels compared to his peers who are getting a lot more support with studying and careers advice.

I think you need to suggest that he has picked an almost impossible path and that you (and the college) are partly responsible for the position he is in. Offer to help him with making a plan and getting him some careers advice and exploring all the ways to get where he wants to be.

As much as I agree with letting young people make their own choices, most 17 year olds have easily accessible opportunities for advice at college, he doesn’t have that, only you.

17 year olds have unlimited access to all the information in the world… in the 90s when I was young it was actually hard to find stuff out. I drifted and screwed up with the best of them, and back then you had to take a bus to a careers centre or whatever.
I really think that before any sort of action there needs to be motivation, there needs to be something that’s self directed. I’m not saying don’t support, but young adults can research things themselves.
Taking on responsibility is a good way to gain confidence. Doing everything for them makes them feel like they are not capable, because you are obliquely telling them so.

Well, I was planning on sending the list of apprenticeships I found and reminding him to look at the various colleges, plus I imagine I would prob book the open days, but essentially we would be giving him the space to think it through.

I've also already suggested the two people who can help with volunteering who he knows.

He can take care of things at home, go and keep his grandad company a couple of times a week and generally be useful.

If you are currently paying for a level tutors what about using that money instead to pay for an online access to HE diploma which he can start at 17, and could start asap rather than killing time until September. It’s much easier to be motivated on these as you are completing modules, submitting essays, getting them marked and they all add up to your final result.
my son who sounds not dissimilar to yours started one at 17, has nearly finished it now, and has offers for university this autumn (he probably won’t go but that’s another story - it’s been good for him to know he has the option)
he did it through here and has done work around it - landscaping, warehouses etc.
https://www.distancelearningcentre.com/course/access-to-he-diploma/english/

Oh interesting, because I had thought Access courses were for over 19 only.

He has been back working hard again the last few days since I posted, but we have very much taken a step back and he has come back by himself and was talking about uni again last night - though he is aware of the possibility of it not happening, he is still hoping.

But this is also the way he is studying his A Levels with ICS, it is structured etc, someone will mark his coursework - he is struggling with the medium as well - no peers etc.

You're not alone.
My ds 17 has three friends who are all at home doing nothing . None can drive yet and all half heartedly looking for work. All lovely young men but two dropped out of college and the other has just finished with a level 2 but plans on getting a job but in our village there are very few opportunities.
My son will finish his level 2 vocatiobal course but because he can't see to get his maths gcse he has become despondent and wants to leave and says he has his pot washing job in the pub so that's what he will do. I worry about him all the time. He now wants a moped to get to work. So we are looking into that. Honestly it's really tricky for our teens out there and all seem to be a bit lost.