DD (15) and 'toxic' friend - WWYD?

[LumpySpaceCow]

Hi,

DD (15) has been friends with with another girl for a few years. Her friend has autism (not sure whether this is relevant but wanted to add - her mum blames a lot of her behaviour on this). The relationship has had its ups and downs, but yesterday DD was really upset and disclosed that her friend is saying hurtful things to her (e.g. about her appearance - hair is shit, ugly, weird features, but the most concerning is 'I hate you, kill yourself). So much so, that her confidence in her own appearance seems really low.

Her friend says these things in a jokey way so that when DD challenges her, she's accused of being 'soft' or 'sensitive' and not being able to take a joke. Ultimately, her friend doesn't give a shit when she hurts people and openly admits this.

I am not sure how to navigate this. DH thinks I should speak to the girls mum, but DD doesn't want this - she thinks it will make it worse and she is terrified of not having any friends (her school circle of friends is very small) - she also doesn't want her mum interfering with her friendships at 15! I thought about speaking to school but DD again doesn't want this.

I'm just not sure what to do. Has anyone else been in this situation? I know I am biased, but DD is a lovely girl - intelligent, compassionate, empathetic and I am just so angry that this girl is having such a negative impact on her MH and self esteem.

Any advice would be appreciated!!!

That's a tough one. Could you think up soft but assertive responses.

Ouch! To a hurtful remark

I'm not finding it funny. To "its just a joke" often works enough to make it stop for a bit I find.

If accused of being sensitive
I cant help but wondering why you would say such things to me if you feel I am sensitive?

Your daughter is being bullied, and told to kill herself. I think you need to step in, and I’d start with school. Then I’d keep your DD busy with days out and hobbies, even consider a little Saturday job.

The friend is a toxic nasty little sod. Nothing to do with autism IMO. I can't think of a single autistic person I know (including my own kids) who are like this. Quite the opposite in fact so I think the autism is a side issue here.

I'd be guiding your daughter away from this and speaking to school too. She's being bullied and that's a life changing situation to be in as I know from bitter experience.

I've had this with my young teenage daughter, to the point she ended up anorexic and when she returned to school her "friend" had told everyone she was off because she was trans.
My daughter didn't thank me for it at the time, but I put an end to that friendship, I was forever in the school having meetings stating they were to be kept apart and why.
And the girl was not to contact her in and way outside of school, eventually the girl moved on, and I think school were fed up of me as I was a wasp in their ear.

How is your relationship with her Mum? Could you have a chat and ask if everything is OK with 'friend'? Frame the conversation around concern for friend - she's saying some odd things to DD, is friend struggling with something?

I would notify school. The kill yourself is enough to make this urgent, she is planting a seed in your DD's head that could take root. Your DD is being bullied. Never approach the parent. School staff have training and have procedure and policy to follow so I would start composing an email today. Just state facts, what has been said. The school should have a bullying policy on their website to show parents what steps they will take. In my own DC's school they were incredible at sorting out negative comments from children, we called it drive by insults where someone just says crap to you whilst walking past you. So even with no evidence and he said she said they still took it deadly serious.

I would also look at how to widen her circle of friends through school clubs or anything outside of school too.

I also would be telling your DD that happy people rarely lash out at others. Her friend's behaviour says a lot about her and how she feels about herself.

My daughter ended up in a similar state. I ended up moving schools to a different town and cut the nasty bitches out of her life. No regrets.

Try a different approach first.

Endlessly talk to your daughter about good/positive friendships and what they look like. Help her come up with some rebuttals that are firm . Help her expand her social circle, clubs, interacting with other people, have them over at the house , go out shopping etc. and encourage her to spend time with other girls.

Does the school have good pastoral care? Could she see someone there so they can work on it on their end?

could your DD text her something like ‘Somethings only a joke if both parties find it funny’. May need to repeat this regularly.

your DD could blank and ignore the girl each time she’s horrid, for a week or two, she might slowly learn her behaviour is damaging the relationship.

There will always be nasty girls around, she needs to focus on building happier relationships with people who respect and value her. Personally I’d sit her down and work out which clubs she can join, who she can arrange to meet outside of school and review social media involvement.

i might consider talking to schools pastoral team and ask if they can do work around what good friendships look like. I wouldn’t talk to mum unless you are close buddies.

Thank you so much for all the helpful comments. I echo that I think it's bullying and I think it stems from the 'friend' being insecure about herself (and maybe some past trauma) so to make herself feel better, she wants to make DD feel worse.

I am friendly with her mum but when I've brought things up before she punishes and berates DD which then has a negative impact on my DD - I don't think her daughter ever understands what the issue is but thinks her mum is unreasonable and my DD a snitch.

We have had conversations in the past about positive friendships (and she has 2 lovely friends who go to a different school and I often compare this friendship to that) but she is scared of being alone at school. I have had another chat with her today and she is hoping to become better friends with another couple of girls who attend an after school club.

I am in 2 minds about speaking to school. I take on board everything that everyone has said, and the comments are alarming (she has even made 'joke' comments about how she would like to kill my DD which terrify me more), however, DD is really against this. I was thinking of maybe talking to pastoral to preempt any escalations and to get their advice, as they must be used to dealing with things like this. However, I also do t want to go behind DDs back in case she stops talking to me - we have a very good relationship and she tells me most things, I do think want to jeopardise this.

I'd phrase it to your DD as involving pastoral to support her navigate this situation , making healthy boundaries and in making new friends (a bit like therapy ) rather than "snitching" on this girl or trying to get her in trouble and see if that's an approach she's more comfortable with.

So rather than "I want you to deal with this kid" an "I want you to help my child" approach.

Also, forgot to say, if she's willing to try and make new friends try and support her as much as you can if possible. Like I said before, hanging out at your house, meetups, lifts etc. if at all possible.

I know it sounds bonkers at their age , but it still works .

Please tell school. They will have plans and policies in place to deal with this sort of scenario. ‘Joke’ threats to kill/ suggestions of suicide are never harmless. Ever.
You are your daughters best advocate at the moment and your inaction will pervade her conciousness - what if I am that worthless?
Get in there on Monday. You need to ask to see their anti bullying policy and you need to get them in the picture quickly. And do bear in mind that something is clearly not going well in the other child’s life - so in advocating for your daughter you may well also be helping the other child. If you have any written texts/snaps etc with that sort of language in them then take screenshots and show them to pastoral.
This will be taken seriously.

You absolutely need to inform school, you need to protect your daughter from this frenemy.

I wouldn't speak to the other child's parent, it serves no purpose but comes back on your child. Does this girl visit your daughter at home, if so that would cease immediately
I would make it clear to the other child that you had overheard a conversation and as a result she is no longer welcome in your home.

I would encourage your daughters healthy friendships and look to build new ones.

Whilst you don't want to upset your child, you do need to advocate for her and she needs it now more than ever.

Please op this is so wrong. Please step in and support dd. Even ASD doesn't excuse this. At all.

When you are emotionally astute, secure, with good self worth, you just know that this isn't ok. But when you are 15, that realisation may not be immediate.

She is not a friend.

Iwould tell your daughter to get away from her and stop talking to her!

its pure nasty!

DD should stand up for herself and end the friendship.

This^^

I actually had similar with my daughter, I found out when she had told my daughter to skip two classes and if she didn’t she would kill herself.

I spoke to the school safeguarding team, told them everything, told my daughter if E harmed herself it was not any fault or my daughter, talked to her about healthy relationships and in the end told her to not hand around with her.

The girl ended up leaving school and because she had been so toxic it left my daughter with no friends, they’d avoided her because they didn’t want to be her, it really impacted my daughters mental health, she struggles to trust people and make friends, even now at Uni, luckily she has a great boyfriend, ironically the ex friend is at Uni herself and I’ve heard she is thriving.

I wish I’d know sooner to get her the confidence to away from the toxic friendship. My daughter carried the burden for a long time.

It’s not that easy, it’s similar to an abusive relationship, throw in their young age into the mix and it’s highly toxic.

Standing up for herself needs support and guidance.

I have a sister in law with similar behaviour, a real narcissist, and she’s proud of it, she doesn’t have autism she’s just downright nasty.

I know it’s not quite the same as your situation, but these kind of people don’t change, they don’t want to. I wouldn’t accept her telling your daughter to kill herself, that is horrendous!

I would start with school and have a chat with the head of year to express your concerns. Perhaps school can intervene with the girls parents and put them in the picture? That way you wouldn’t have to confront them on your own.

I no longer have anything to do with my SIL, haven’t spoken to her for over 10 years now. She said some really vile things to me and she doesn’t care, she thinks it’s amusing being a bitch. Recently she approached my husband to tell me it’s time to bury the hatchet. I don’t need DRAINS in my life, I have plenty of RADIATORS to keep me company. I hope you get this sorted out for your daughter, I truly do 🤗

Thank you so much everyone. I am going to speak to school on Monday and approach it like @BlueSilverCats suggests.
I agree with you @Snippit I don't think she will change and I think the more my DD hangs about with her, the more it will effect her self worth and esteem.
Thanks again everyone! Really helpful getting all your views!

Does your dd have other friends she can hang out with at school or is it just her and the friend as a duo op?