17yr old DD struggling badly with friendships

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Long time poster but name changed as would hate for anyone I know to see this and link it back. My wonderful 17yr old DD has always struggled with maintaining close friendships. She seems to be able to make friends but somehow is always the one left out, excluded from the group or they drift away to another group. Nothing seems to particularly happen but she just seems a bit invisible. She calls herself irrevelant which breaks my heart. It’s like her friends always seem to just like other people more, she’s never a priority. She reaches out and arranges things and sometimes this works, but it’s never reciprocated and often finds things have happened socially with her friends that she wasn’t invited to.

She went to a fresh college with no one from school and seemed to start off really well and build some good friendships but they’ve either not developed and are still just acquaintances or they’ve drifted off to other people and are now in solid groups. She plays sport to county level and has friends there who are happy to be with her when playing the sport but again anything social she tends to be forgotten or overlooked unless it’s something group arranged with parents which obviously happens less now they’re all nearly 18. It’s like people are happy to tolerate her being around but if numbers are limited they wouldn’t choose her.

Because of her sport I get to see her with her friends in groups and she doesn’t seem to do anything ‘wrong’ as such but I do notice when she speaks in a group it doesn’t land in quite the same way as when other people do. This has become such a vicious cycle of putting herself out there and being rejected that she’s now really struggling and understandably anxious about starting uni in September and making friends there. She has had a boyfriend for 6 months and that seems to be going well.

I just don’t know how to help her, there’s only so many times I can tell her she will find her tribe and people who value her etc she now just says she must be unlikeable because everyone she’s tried to be friends with gets on with other people just not her. Has anyone else had similar and how did they get on at university? I’m so worried about her, she’s such a fabulous girl, funny, bright and caring I just can’t quite understand what goes wrong for her

No advice but my 15 year old son is exactly the same and it breaks my heart. I just hope he will find his tribe someday as your daughter will. She sounds lovely it's such a shame she just hasn't been lucky with her friendships. My son is clever and sporty and in my opinion a lovely young man but he has never really had a best friend or even a sold group of friends.

I feel for your daughter. It’s never nice to be overlooked and it seems like she’s doing all the right things - sports, arranging things, putting herself out there. What I pick up on is that you say sometimes her comments don’t ‘land right’.

I assume you don’t suspect any type of neurodiversity?

Could it be that she is a little blunt with her comments that don’t ‘land right’ - not enough for her others to call her out but enough for them to raise an eyebrow and not think she is easy company / not thoughtful in her comments and maybe rubs them up the wrong way / upsets them without meaning too?

If that’s the case you could have a very gentle and sensitive word. It’s positive that she has a boyfriend - he must see all her good qualities - and you can point out to her that if he can, then others will too. University is huge with many different types of people so there is much more chance that she will find people on her wavelength.

My DD was exactly the same. Lovely girl but she has some sensory issues and I feel like she might be autistic ( issues with food also) and lots of social anxiety I .also felt that she was always sidelined in groups and she was often bullied by exclusion at school.

on a positive note, she has a great relationship with her boyfriend and his wider family. University was hard initially but she made 2 really good friends who were quite similar and she lived with them in the last two years. She also had a few acquaintances which she would meet socially occasionally . Now she’s working and has made a couple of friends with people at work, but not really deep friendships so far.

I sympathise it is so hard to see our lovely DD struggle like this. My DD has always seemed to get on better with much older or younger people than her own peer group. She also seems to have a real affinity with animals so pets have been a blessing.

That would be quite typical of someone who is ND OP, do you think she might be ND?

My DD2 started high school with 2 others from her primary, one particularly was quite a good friend but was quite outgoing and soon landed with the "popular set" we are all a bit geeky and don't follow the crowd if it doesn't suit us. My DD went around to girls on the fringes and formed a "misfit group " not my words, and managed ok. Onto college and uni similar played out. She is very sociable but quirky and has lots of friends but makes a big effort to keep in touch, they are not however all in the same group, perhaps your daughter is similar and is not good in big groups but would find it easier more 1 to 1. Also perhaps she is not on the same wavelength as some in the current group and that is why some of her interactions don't land well. Lots of friends is not essential one or two real friends is more desirable imo. She will be fine at uni, she will likely mixed more with ppl who have similar interests, not just lumped together.

Thank you so much all I really appreciate the insights and sorry to hear others struggle with the same. A couple of asked about ND, and it is something I’ve considered and yes possibly some traits but feel like that could be said about so many people so never investigated too far beyond a bit of googling. Perhaps something to consider though not sure if it would help or hinder her 🤔

@sunnyday81 with the not landing right, I can’t think of a specific example but something like she will say ‘I’m looking forward to seeing XXX’ and a few people will nod or say yeah and the conversation will move swiftly on. But someone else will say similar and it will spark an animated conversation across the group if that makes sense.

Im so worried about her self esteem, she’s so good at brushing things off and pretending she doesn’t care/she’s over it but I know it must hurt really deeply. Her younger sister is the total opposite with a solid group of friends and actively sought out when plans are made which highlights it even more I think. I’d say of the two older DD is a bit kinder and more considerate with friends (not to say younger DD isn’t amazing because she is!) We’ve had so many conversations over the years of things to do/say to help/social skills. I just worry so much about her going to uni and being miserable 😢 Not being easy company really resonated with me @sunnyday81 because I think that’s the crux of the issue but she tries so hard to be! Give me toddler tantrums any day!!

I totally sympathise OP as I am in the same situation with my DD. I too think there may be undiagnosed ND that could explain it but it is so hard to see them struggle ☹️

Oh bless her, my DD is the same.
She always managed to get herself into a 3 and then pushed out from Primary, through Secondary and at 6th form college. Secondary was especially hard as she had Covid school/home/school etc etc.
She had friends but was always an afterthought and I have no idea why and its not something I ever dealt with. It was awful when she used to say "I thought this time it would be different"
BUT she started Uni in September and seems to have made some good friends so fingers crossed this time it WILL be different

Things that helped my DD getting a pt job where other young people there & going to uni.

It’s excruciating & can feel so hard but in my experience it does get easier. Schools & colleges can feel brutal.
💐

@Hoppinggreen this sounds identical - has friends but always an afterthought and I thought this time would be different we’re here exact words when the new college friends drifted into groups that didn’t include her. SO happy to hear your DD is getting on well at uni this gives me hope!

She is trying to get a PT job and did a few agency waitressing shifts over Christmas which she really enjoyed. She tries so hard bless her

My Ds16 is the same, a lovely boy, would do anything for anyone and people do make friends with him and let him hang on the periphery of the group but he's mainly ignored and excluded.

He is ASD, this is probably a major point. But it doesn't actually help to know. It's not like people have to be nicer to him or include him just because he has a label, it actually just gives him another reason to hate himself.

I have no answers. We keep him busy with sports and classes so he doesn't feel like he does nothing outside school. Lots of these are mixed with adults and they're much more accommodating and make him feel liked.

This sounds like my nephew. He did go to university and lasted six weeks. Is now at a different uni commuting in from home every day. Still no friends really that stick. Definitely quirky.

I was like this as a teen and it's panned out for me much like @Eyerollexpert 's DD. I've never found my tribe and was never the kind of girl who got invited to the hen weekends and parties, but I have got a group of good friends, hardly any of whom are connected to one another, many of whom are outsiders in one way or another. It got easier for me at uni.

I've found its become easier as I've got older, partly because I probably honed my social skills and partly because I think people value different things in friendship as they get older, I'm reliable nice and good at accepting people quirks and all and I find that's appreciated more at my age (forties) than it was when I was a teen. People seem to mind the slight awkwardness less! So it might just be a question of time, hard though it is now.

I also never struggled too much for boyfriends which helped. Not sure why that was easier than friends for me but it always was and that was a saving grace for me in my twenties when I felt deeply unpopular with peers.

Never sought diagnosis but I'm almost certain I have inattentive ADHD fwiw.

Following as we’re going through this with DD13. There was a party last week she wasn’t invited to and she said “I’m used to it”. It broke my heart. I do think lack of inner confidence plays a part as confident people always seem more attractive but I’m at a loss how to bolster her inner confidence. How can she learn to sparkle?

Sorry can’t work out how to edit my last post.

DD13 is fine when she’s out of school and confident but in school she is so conditioned to being left out it’s become a self fulfilling prophecy. I think maybe both girls need to try faking it until they make it - big smiles, jolly cheerful personality - although if I’m honest I’m not sure how long I could keep that up for.

it’s great your DD has a boyfriend as it shows she clearly is capable of forming and maintaining meaningful relationships.

Sounds tough. Be honest though does she talk about herself all the time/ is self absorbed ? Does she make barbed comments to others? Two girls are no longer in dds circle for being like this. People eventually get fed up of both behaviours.

Thats a bit harsh
Some people just get left out for no discernable reason while some just seem to attract people to them - if we could pinpoint why it would make life much easier.
Nasty post

Well if you spend time with someone and they only talk about themselves and show zero interest in anyone else that’s quite off putting in a friend. The second girl asked why she wasn’t being invited Dd was honest with her and said it was because of her unkind comments - then she kept making unkind comments!

May be ops Dd isn’t like this just offering real life reasons some girls this age haven’t maintained friendships. Dd still sees them separately but has no control over who others invite or don’t invite to their houses.

I actually wish it was that easy @TheaBrandt and I will be honest when it first happened in primary school my immediate thought was ‘what have you done to cause this’ and we talked about not being a gossip, make sure you’re interested in others etc and I think from what I have seen she is neither horrible or self absorbed. She does have quite strong morals/opinions and rightly or wrongly I have spoken to her about toning this down over the years. For example when she had a group of friends early in secondary and she felt someone was being badly treated she would be the first to stick her neck out in support and it ended up the whole group turned on her and the girl she was sticking up for didn’t do the same back and stayed in the group. Tough lesson.

She has asked before why she’s not been invited and it’s always oh I don’t know, sorry you weren’t around when we arranged it or sorry I could only invite so many people. Never an actual reason she could work on. I’m not saying she’s perfect by any stretch but no less perfect than others who seem to breeze through 🤷‍♀️

There is absolutely no evidence of OP (or anyone elses DC) behaving in the way you describe and I find it very odd that you would suggest they do.
Your DD clearly has no issue making and keeping friends and that is great but I don't feel those of us with kids who DO struggle with that need your nasty suggestions about why that might be.

I am not trying to be nasty it breaks my heart to hear of lonely young people but frankly if it was my child I would want to do anything I could to help them and knowing the reason however unpalatable that may be may help me help them. I explicitly said it may not well be this of course I dont know we are all randoms but I literally just had this conversation with my own dd on a long car journey about these girls so this topic was on my mind. Am sure these girls mums are puzzling as to why they have lost their friends too.

Maybe you are just trying to help but it sounds like you have no experience of this at all so I don't see how you can.
Perhaps leave the suggestions to those of us who know what we are talking about here?
As for you "frankly" doing everything you can to help your child - do you not think we might have done that?
Of course none of us have probably said that its all their own fault for being so self centered so maybe that might be worth a go, unlikely though.

My 12 year old DD is similar. She just doesn't "fit in". I was very different to her / I always had a large group of friends and still do. But anyway she is different. She doesn't like the bitchiness that comes with a large group. She is extremely empathetic and kind and ultimately even though I think she will have a hard life; I do admire her.

She doesn't have signs of any ND and I'm only sharing in case it resonates.

I think uni is likely to help a lot. Conversations do run deeper when you get there, and people are less cliquey. A lot of people find their tribe at uni.

My DD is the same. It breaks my heart. She has ‘friends’ at college but she never does anything with friends, never invited to the party or catch up in the holidays. She won’t ever confide with us about it so it’s hard to tell how much she minds but she’s definitely aware of it.