Let her fail?

[Zach64]

Hello all,

I have been trying to motivate my 15 yr old to take her school more seriously…simply put in more effort. If all she can muster is D’s and C’s that’s fine…just show up and try (she usually gets A’s when she tries). She does have ADHD, dyslexia to some degree, and anxiety. However, she would rather just watch videos or hang with a friend than put even a modest amount of time into school.
We have been struggling for years…but now it’s high school…and the grades will follow her.

I am totally frustrated and wondering if it’s time to just let go…let her fail if that’s what is needed to wake her. Has anyone else tried this approach. It’s feels drastic…but she is going down a bad path including the people she is now associating with. What I am doing is not working. I don’t want to spend four years dragging her kicking and screaming thru high school…for my own sanity.

Thanks for reading and your time.

I tried it and luckily it worked in my (and her) favour. It was very hard to stand back and watch her fail but she needed to come to her own conclusions and realise the repercussions of her actions. It did wake her up.

I was however more strict on who she was hanging out with, I really gave that my all. It was hard and I lost some battles and won others but again she came to her own realisation. It was a gamble but anything was better than the constant battle of trying to make her engage in school when she just wouldn't.

I'm confused. Four years? Presumably at 15 she's getting ready to do her GCSEs?

What treatment/strategies have you got in place for the ADHD? I doubt letting her fail is going to fix anything if the ADHD is the root of her problems.

She does have ADHD, dyslexia to some degree, and anxiety.

What support is in place for her? Any SEN provision? ADHD medication? Dyslexia accomodation?

I really can’t blame her for dis-engaging from school if she isn’t getting the SEN support she needs.

The tough love tell her to try harder and perhaps failing will wake her up will do nothing if she doesn’t have the SEN support she needs and is legally entitled to.

Some questions...

Does she have career plans or an idea of what she wants to do in life?

Is there anything she is motivated to do? What makes her tick ie is it praise, money, love of sport etc..

How is she feeling about the future? Positive, blasé, worried, couldn't care less?

Have you tried offering incentives to study and how has that gone down?

Is it clear what you expect ie what is 'more effort', is it specific like one hour Mon, weds and Saturday for example?

How does her adhd show up? For example is it through being hyper, disorganised or doing too much?

I think the suggestions might vary depending on answers

I wouldn't - not at least without looking at what options post 16 that leaves you/her - as it's not as easy as it was in past years to re-take and options hugely vary. You don't want a NEET with no outside support for years.

As PP have said what support does get in school?

Does she get overwhelmed come revision ? My DS does - would she sit with you and work though past paper questions? again worked for DS - didn't for my DDs - DD2 though does well with a do this by then and we'll go though anything you struggle with on x day.

Can you afford outside tutors - again she may need support to know what to actually do.

Is she taking meds for ADHD - what are you trying to help with the anxiety?

Try working with her to find an alternative pathway, one that doesn’t involve mainstream schooling. It sounds like her mental health should be the priority. It also sounds like she’s not used to being good at something. My daughter is beginning vocational training next year, I just want to see her be enthusiastic about life again

What does she want to do after GCSE's? What does she need to do it? What would she like to do as a job? I think it's always easier to motivate kids who know what they want and where they want to go.

If she doesn't know then maybe it would be worth looking at some of the options that are available to her - does she want to do A-levels? Go to uni? Do an apprenticeship? Go to college? Vocational courses? What courses are available away from school post GCSE? Perhaps talking about what she might want to do after GCSE's would help her to think about her future and focus on what she needs to do to get there.

It's so much easier if they have an idea of what they want to do, you then might be able to get her doing things like relevant volunteering, relevant clubs, work experience - all things that keep her busy and away from the dodgy friends. I would imagine her self esteem is very low and anything you can do to help her see how capable she is might help.

Personally I would never stand by and lets my kids fail. I'd go with gentle encouragement, praise of anything on the right path, lots of time, support and attention. I was really involved in DS's school work (ASD and dyspraxia). I always made sure he did his homework, talked it through with him, made revision timetables, talked about his future and the sorts of things he'd need for applications to uni or apprenticeships, knew what he wanted to do, researched the options available to him, persuaded him to do relevant extra curriculars.

I think teenagers need as much time putting into them as toddlers tbh.

They have to stay in education until 18. My DD is 15 and in year 10, so that gives hers a little under 4 years left

Unfortunately, this can cause problems when they start university. There is always a not insignificant number of 18 year olds who spend the first year really struggling because they haven't developed the skills needed to manage their studies without parental input.

They have to stay in education until 18. My DD is 15 and in year 10, so that gives hers a little under 4 years left

Yes but it's not 4 years in high school. It's either 1 or 2 years left then after that OPs daughter can leave school and choose an apprenticeship or college if she hasn't done so well. I just didn't understand the "next 4 years dragging her through school" when that won't necessarily happen.

Maybe OP lives in the states? I know this site isn't popular there but there are bound to be some Americans on here

@Stephanator yes I'm wondering so now tbh

My opinion and experience on this is that you can put as much effort into pushing or guiding and still it’s up to the teen themself to have the drive and the want to succeed. I think guide is the only think you can do which I think is different from feeling / being responsible. You can encourage with words. You can buy study books but you can’t physically make them study or take it in. The friendships are hard as you’re not there all day and therefore can’t control who she hangs around with in school and possibly to an extent at this point after school.
therefore control the controllable where you can, continue with encouragement and aids but don’t get yourself stressed as even if you got her away from the friends and shut her in a room she may not study.

With all respect? How? Do you have a job aswell as this? Your son must have been very compliant to do this in the first place. As for many of us SEN parents, the biggest barrier is getting them to engage.

Maybe - hopefully the OP will come back and clarify.

Talk of C, D and A still happens here in Wales as we kept those grade rather than numbers but they can leave at 16 still - which apparently they can also still do in N.I which does mix of A-G and 1-9 grades.

I suppose advice is still same - check they have support they actually need and find a form they will tolerate it- either through school or home and try and get them to have a post compulsory education plan that hopefully they are keen on to help tap into some self motivation.

My dd is similar, 15, dyspraxic, probably mild ASD, lower than average IQ, suffers with anxiety, has no interest in anything other than her niche hobby and her frankly quite nasty, manipulative friends. I have managed to keep her in school thus far and when she makes an effort she can get Ds and Cs and the occasional B. If she had an interest in anything we could work towards it but sadly not, she gets lots of learning support in fact her school is brilliant with her but she hates it there so we have agreed to move her next year in hopes that it will improve her anxiety. I have no advice op just wanted to say that there are lots of us in this situation, it's bloody hard. Like a pp I can't bear to allow her to fail though, particularly in subjects that she is well capable of passing. I just encourage her to work, remind her to do her homework, and I am not above the occasional bribe if i think it will help.

None of this implies you need to not have a job. It says 'lots of time', it's not prescriptive about how much. For example I have a job but I'm around most evenings, Saturdays and Sundays before I take annual leave.

I work in FE and apprenticeships. Make it really clear that she needs maths and English gcse 4 or above or the college makes them continue until they get them or functional skills which is basically the same. You cannot just opt out and do an apprenticeship every kind you have to do the maths and English unless you have them and also need to be able to show effort at school. Does not matter if it’s painting and decorating, hairdressing, nursery nurse/ early years ,motor vehicles or engineering.

Sadly I have a 16 year old who screwed up some of her GCSEs in particular by failing English. Her A level plan for Art, Sociology and general studies were out of the window. Then her parents split and we have a grandaughter with anxiety and multiple issues dealing with counselling and all that entails. She cant go back to her school to repeat the year. She cant get into college. She refuses the functional skills option. Its a nightmare. Her parents and school let her coast for far to long and this is the result. See the school as soon as possible and get study plans in place and as much help as you can now!. Its harder once shes taken exams and failed to get them back on path.

Tutoring in the subjects she has to pass. She will naturally improve with 1:1 help, get exam tips and tricks and when her results improve her confidence will too.

The biggest difference we saw was when DD1 (also mildly dyslexic) fell in with the right crowd. A naturally studious bunch who didn’t bullshit her by saying they never did any work. They work their asses off and get top marks so she does now see a correlation and does not put her lack of achievement down to her dyslexia. She’s in the first year of her GCSEs and has a maths and English tutor as their her worst subjects. Her work ethic has improved out of all recognition and her grades are rising.

We also heavily limit tv and screentime. No social media, some YouTube but limited to an hour a day.

Our biggest challenge is a bad case of lastminuteitis. She has to work very hard to keep up and get good grades so focusses on study only the night before/morning of an exam. Not sustainable. So we need to figure out how to help her revise in a structured way rather than last minute cramming.