We are really struggling with our 14 yr old DS

[DavidLynch]

Nearly 14 DS is hugely wilful. Could argue with a paper bag. He absolutely loves the screen and despite us putting limitations into place, every day it feels like we are arguing over it.

He’s allowed 2 hours gaming after school. As soon as he’s done, after food/honework (school hardly sets any) he just wants to go from phone to iPad to phone. We try to offer up alternatives - chores/things he likes doing with us if desperate (cooking, football) but he seems unable to go for long without checking his million notifications. We ask him to put his phone down for the night about 8 and watches an episode of something with us on TV.

on paper this seems like he’s reasonable but he’s not. Sometimes I have to follow him around trying to get him off a device. He goes ballistic ag the end of having time limits on stuff - he feels a tremendous sense of injustice over many things - but I feel like I’m managing an addicted toddler.

i can be quite shouty and I admit he pushes my buttons. But even my placid husband is being seriously tested.

homelife is currently miserable.

is this a normal situation? And what can we do to improve it?

I honestly think you’ve just got to go with it, if he doesn’t want to do things then why are you trying to force him? My concern would be you will just push him away. My natural parenting style is obviously different to yours and so it’s hard to go against it and I’m not saying I’m right and you are wrong but I’ve come through the mid teen years and my way if you like seems to have worked. All kids are different too I appreciate that and although I would encourage any after school sports, Duke of Edinburgh etc I would never make them - it’s their decision. My girls are thriving at six form and uni, are independent and confident and most importantly happy! It’s not been all plain sailing of course and there’s been problems along the way, my youngest hated high school and her mental health suffered and it was not an easy time for us but she is loving sixth form and just recently off her own back started netball at a local club, she’s making lots of decisions on her own like securing work experience and now she’s driving her world has opened up. Both girls are often on their phones like most youngsters but a lot of it is watching you tube videos/tv etc and of course social media, however they are not ones to be on them at tea-time/meals out or when we have company or conversing with us. What I’m trying to say is just because he’s on his phone a lot now and has lost interest in things he may well get his drive back to do other things and by all means gently encourage and support but don’t force - no good will come of it.
Is your son happy at school do you think?

This

This sounds like typical normal teenage behaviour. Although I agree that too much screen time is certainly a problem in today's society. Your DS has a whole other world that he is part of through his screen, and this is important to him (I certainly remember spending hours on MSN every night, but I loved it and have so many fond memories of chatting with friends, and it certainly didn't effect my grades or success in life).

I allow my DD who is 13 to set her own limits - she is sensible and certainly doesn't have an addiction, and will take herself off her phone herself. Although she has spent hours at a time on her screen, I'm not concerned, as she is in the top set for everything and achieving well.

On the other hand, I have a stepson who has an actual addiction to his screen. I can see the difference in using a screen a lot and having an actual addiction. They are very different things. My DD will use her phone as a past time, however, my stepsons life revolves around when he can next access his iPad. He will pick it up the minute he gets in. He is completely unaware of what's happening around him when on it (won't answer questions, bumps into people) and kicks up a fuss when asked to come off it. I don't have the authority really to implement to much change with him, that's his father and mothers job.

I think if you notice symptoms of screen time being an actual addiction with your son, then it should be treated as an addiction. In which case may require more than simply setting screen time limits.

oh OP i"m absolutely with you on this.

In the end - parents are not all going to be on the same point of view/ wavelength about this so we do all have to politely disagree/ agree - but I do not think that it is okay or a recipe for a healthy teen years to say if homework is done, if you go to the odd club then you have total freedom otherwise on screens.

This ends up as the OP says as HOURS on phones, swiping away at literal dross on tik tok or endless pointless videos on youtube/ snapchat.

How can this be healthy?

And more importantly - are we all forgetting this stuff is ADDICTIVE - it's not neutral, it's not just a 'social space' for teens - the content on tik tok - the very design of apps like snapchat - BILLIONS of pounds are being spent in silicon valley making these apps deliberately addictive.

So of course no teen is going to think - you know what the sun is shinging im going to see if a mate wants to take a ball down the park

or - Im bored I think ill get my guitar out and strum about a bit

why would they? the phones/ apps are literally impossible to put down.

The idea we can equate tech/ apps like snapchat with the sadly dying third spaces of youth clubs or football cages/ parks - is tragic. They are money making inventions that play on human psychology of connection and the release of dopamine to hook teenagers in.

I have a 12 year old and if I didn't work very very hard to keep him out of the house he would be just like this. He thinks im incredibly strict because I limit his screen/gaming time after school but reading this maybe he is right!

I tell him he has to go to the park, he has to go to a local youth club - he has to see if a friend wants to go to the cinema at the weekend - luckly we live in a town that is safe for all these things.

BUt many times on summer evenings I have felt like crying seeing he is gaming with curtains shut - with boys who live within a mile of our house - sometimes even on our road.

We have to keep encouraging young people to get out and about into the real world - and not fool ourselves this stuff is harmless.

This is exactly how I feel.

I say repeatedly to DS that it’s not him, it’s the nature of this stuff. It’s designed to be addictive. We know it is addictive.

Mine is not allowed Snapchat or TikTok. He's got WhatsApp, Instagram and Facebook (which is apparently for old people).

What you're doing at the moment is clearly not working very well if your house is a constant battleground. You say he has lots of freedom but it honestly doesn't sound like it from your posts, with all the extra activities you are currently trying to encourage him to take part in and having stuff on every other weekend. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but lots of posters have suggested just relaxing things a bit and seeing how it goes, so why don't you just try it? It doesn't sound like things can get much worse and if there's an improvement, you will all benefit. He might surprise you in that if you trust him more, he'll behave in a more mature way.

I hear what you’re saying. I do. We need to change what we’re doing.

but you don’t let your DC have Snapchat or Instagram. Do you not trust your DC to be mature with these apps?

I think some apps have more ‘value’ than others. Tiktok or insta is a time suck.

snapchat I don’t like how messages are stored/inaccessible. It encourages poor behaviour but is often the preferred messaging service of young people.

WhatsApp is fine. Sometimes my daughter sets up her laptop to ‘body double’ with a friend (it’s a bit of a trend) so that they do their homework or whatnot and it encourages them to stay consistent.

ultimately unless you fight it with a reasoned approach you come across as out of touch. I’d be inclined to pick my battles ( but also have the approvals for apps come through your device.)

I am a bit confused about this-I am in my forties and nothing like that was available to us where I lived (and not rural either, a town). At his age I was hanging about on the streets getting drunk.

I grew up in quite a mixed affluence area so we did get a reasonable amount of funding towards youth projects etc. I’d imagine if you were in a better off area then these things are harder to find funding for.

There were plenty of folk doing the same as yourselves though.

Me too sadly. I never knew of any youth clubs. I lived in a medium sized town. I started loitering on street corners and getting drunk aged 14. I'm not proud of this. I'd rather my kids were chatting online or gaming than that.

I am not proud of it either! I didn't even particularly like it at the time but literally couldn't think of anything else to do. Mum worked and I didn't get on with my Dad so staying at home wasn't an option. I am sure I'd have been happier if the internet existed!

@DavidLynch he's got Instagram on the condition that I follow him and he follows me, but not Snapchat or TikTok. I'm not too worried about TikTok as I think most of it ends up on Instagram anyway but he hasn't asked for it since we had our last chat about why I don't want him to have it, so I won't mention it until he does. It might be useful as a bargaining tool later on

I don't like Snapchat because the messages disappear and no, I don't think he's mature enough for it yet, neither are his friends although he seems to be the only one without it. He downloaded it without telling me last year (I have it set up so he needs my approval to download apps and he found my password so I didn't know). I hit the roof and he lost his phone for a few weeks which obviously didn't go down well with him but I was livid. Lots of conversations about trust and maturity followed that.

He is aware that we will check his phone and expect him not to have messaged anyone with anything he doesn't want us to see. We do check it regularly, although not so much recently as not had any cause for concern. He's not allowed to delete messages on WhatsApp or use disappearing messages. We have a lot of chats about how tone is interpreted and how things can be screenshotted and sent around. He seems to have got the message and has been more responsible since the Snapchat incident. He's still not getting Snapchat yet though.

There are conditions to the screen time and if he takes the piss he will lose it all, he knows we will take the Xbox controllers, phone etc and he will need to sit and watch tv in the evening with us, which at 13 is apparently a fate worse than death. It has not been plain sailing but we seem to be at a point now where the phone/gaming is not always causing issues.

My mum was very strict with screen time, I wasn't allowed to watch anything on tv, we didn't have a computer, even now she's a nightmare. I didn't get a say in anything, my opinions were never allowed to be expressed, let alone listened to. As a result I do let my DC express their opinions and I do listen to them and consider what they have to say, if I say no, I explain why. It doesn't always go down well but they chill out eventually.

I'd sit down with him and have a conversation - why does he think his screen time should be unlimited? Why do you think it shouldn't be? Can he have extra time on a Friday night and a Saturday as a trial? Can you agree that he will help with cooking dinner once a week if you agree to extend screen time? Let him know that you still want to spend time with him as you enjoy his company. If the trial goes well, it carry on, if there are issues, you will have to reconsider. It's worth a try as no-one wants to live in a war zone with an angry teenager. Good luck!

As a result I do let my DC express their opinions and I do listen to them and consider what they have to say, if I say no, I explain why.

This is really good advice. You keep the upper hand, but even if they don't get what they want, at least they feel heard. And that's a chance that they'll take your concerns on board. (a slim chance!)

There will always be people on here telling you to "nip it in the bud" and "lay down the law", but I've found that a more collaborative approach works better.

Oh my - so many parents are fooling themselves about what teenagers are reasonably capable of. The combination of teenage brains, peer pressure and social media/gaming is absolutely toxic. Their brains are not mature and stable enough to rationally manage their use of these addictive things - it doesn’t matter how many sensible chats you have with them. It’s like giving an alcoholic the keys to the brewery and then saying “it’s not worth the battle”.

Teenagers need parents to make and enforce boundaries, no matter how unpopular you feel. Read as much Jonathan Haidt as you need to. Set up the tech in your house so you are in control at all times, including bedtimes. Set an example with your own phone/internet use. Do not give up on finding alternative distractions in and outside the house. Pick schools who share your ethos. Etc.

"When I was 14 I wouldn’t have wanted to hang about with my parents either.
the devices are where his social connections are.
Have a look at him joining some sort of club aligned with his interests or a gym membership."

I agree with this. At 14 I think it's a bit late to limit his exciting, developing social connections. I remember when he was about 11; the wifi broke. He actually threw himself to the floor and cried as I couldn't fix it at the time 🤣 - his rules at that age were all homework done and reports from school he had tried his best, in general. Also he must come down for his meals when called. Or wifi goes off. I never had to do that, even once. Later on and slightly older , same rules but he had to keep up a sport or one club. He dumped cubs/scouts but chose football. He was never the best footballer and he knew it, but I told him to keep it up, as when you are older and poss have to move jobs etc.. you have an instant friendship group. He's always remembered that. Also, watching TV with the family never worked for us as we (and he in particular), couldn't find anything we all liked to watch, however we are all big football fans, so we enjoyed watching the Euros, and odd footie matches together. Still do. He's 25 now and that's our family bond 😊(oh and once he was driving, and met his girlfriend at his part time job, he lost interest in screens).

I let mine manage their own screen time. Both left school with top grades. It’s a different generation now, I loved being out with friends etc, but the screen is socialisation for most teens. I certainly didn’t want to spend much time with my parents at that age. As long as homework is done, he does other things like sport, I don’t see the benefit in constant arguing / bad tension.