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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Does ds need help or is this normal?

18 replies

Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 20:11

Apologies in advance that this will be a long post but I wanted to give as much info as possible to get peoples opinions please.

Dh and I are trying to decide whether to get Ds17 assessed for asd/inattentive adhd or whether his behaviour is just normal teenage stuff/his personality and we should just leave well alone. This question has been lingering for many years and has come up through his life on various occasions. We have always thought we would seek a diagnosis if we thought it would support his journey through life and have been wary of ‘pigeonholing’ him into a diagnosis unnecessarily. So far we have always come to the conclusion that it wouldn’t help him but now very unsure.

His primary school reports always mentioned things like ‘loses focus easily’ or ‘finds it hard to focus on what’s being asked’ every year but school never red flagged it or asked for investigations so we left it. He met or exceeded all targets academically. Lots of teachers described him as lovely but ‘in his own world’ at times and that is definitely how we have experienced life with him too.
He has always been slightly different to other boys his age in terms of personality and on the immature side but we have always put this down as ‘quirky’ and just who he is. He maintained good friendships with a small group throughout primary school and was always invited to play dates and parties but was always a follower not an instigator in play or ideas. He is very passive.

In the first year of secondary school he was like a lost sheep; forgot something every day and lost his whole PE kit in the first week. It took him a full year to orientate himself and to make one new friend who has unfortunately since left the school.

Now at the end of secondary, things have fallen apart somewhat. He has slipped under the radar totally and not fully engaged with school life but has ticked boxes academically and kept up (he’s at a grammar school) so nothing has been red flagged but socially, he has ended school with next to no friends. He doesn’t hang out with people his own age, no parties, no girlfriends/boyfriends. He has some sort of social life online which we are vaguely aware of but he is very private about it which is his prerogative.

Last year he had an irreparable fall out with his ‘best friend’ after what seemed to us as a year of intensifying bullying behaviour from the friend. The friend kept telling ds he was autistic in front of others and used it as a weapon saying that ds needed to ‘admit it’. This ‘friend’ also tried to publicly humiliate him about an online ‘relationship’ ds had been having. It all ended very nastility and a lot of the friends he did seem to have all drifted away. This has undoubtedly contributed to his low self esteem. We applied for a school change to retake lower 6th as felt this had negatively affected him on many levels but were unsuccessful. He was very keen to change schools.

In terms of other possible symptoms of neurodivergence; he finds it hard to maintain eye contact and chat with people he doesn’t know well, but he can do it. I’ve always put this down to being shy as I was at a similar age. He chats to people but doesn’t want to hang around for long and seeks the comfort of his own room or own space. He seems acutely embarrassed to talk to other adults or other people his age.

He has been obsessed with the online game ‘Roblox’ for about a decade and has never moved on from this as his favourite game. He has no hobbies except for karate which we kind of insisted he did as he does no exercise otherwise and we thought it would help him build confidence. Everything we’ve encouraged him to do, he has given up as soon as possible like joining clubs at school of which there are many.

Academically he has done well with a good set of gcse results but he has become less and less interested in school and working. He says he will pull his finger out for upper sixth and we’re hoping for the best but after that he really has no clue what he wants to do with his life. He has a part time job which he enjoys and has stuck at, washing dishes in a local pub. We’re really proud of this as he entered an environment with other adult strangers and has coped really well with it. The people he works with treat him well but are in a totally different age bracket so unlikely to ever become close friends.

To meet ds you would think he is a lovely young man; very polite and always happy but this is part of the problem; he doesn’t share anything of his inner life with us or anyone (except one cousin) which could be understandable at his age but coupled with the lack of social life has us very worried. He is very close to his female cousin of the same age (who lives a flight away) and he has confided in her about his issues to the point my sister had to phone me and tell him to stop leaning on his cousin for support as she couldn’t deal with it. He did tell her that he was depressed and thought of suicide. We spoke to him about it and he said he had been feeling down but that he would speak to the counsellor at school if I arranged it. That is due to start soon.

In summary: ds 17 spends a lot of time alone and struggles socially/has almost no social
life. He is academically bright but losing interest. No interest in romantic relationships or dating, no idea what to do in the future. Has an online life which we are excluded from but has had an obsession with one particular game (Roblox) for at least 10 years despite our best efforts to get him to try something else…He seems isolated but not unduly worried about it. We’re the ones doing the worrying!

So does he need a diagnosis or just more time to grow up and find himself?

Really appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this!

OP posts:
cansu · 22/09/2024 21:14

I think it needs to be his decision. Have you ever spoken to him about neurodiversity? It could help him to understand what he finds difficult. He could access some additional support at uni perhaps.

HighCholesterolHorror · 22/09/2024 21:25

Hi op, from what you are saying it seems like it might be worth exploring whether he has ADHD and Autism and knowing might help him to feel more understanding of himself and his strengths and challenges. We’ve gone down the diagnostic route with our similar ds (he’s a somewhat younger teen) and he’s so much better now he’s been diagnosed.

Would going private be an option at all?

HighCholesterolHorror · 22/09/2024 21:26

Also as he has talked about feeling suicidal it would be worth reaching out to the GP as well.

Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 21:26

Thanks for your reply. I agree it needs to be his decision. We’ve spoken to him about neurodiversity and he also thinks he has some traits. Its just trying to understand how having a diagnosis would help him if we did go down that route…

Do you know what sort of help might be available to him if he did go to uni?

OP posts:
Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 21:32

HighCholesterolHorror · 22/09/2024 21:25

Hi op, from what you are saying it seems like it might be worth exploring whether he has ADHD and Autism and knowing might help him to feel more understanding of himself and his strengths and challenges. We’ve gone down the diagnostic route with our similar ds (he’s a somewhat younger teen) and he’s so much better now he’s been diagnosed.

Would going private be an option at all?

Thanks so much for your reply.

Im so interested to know how a diagnosis has helped your ds. How old is he and where did you get the diagnosis? We would be in a position to go privately and judging by the state of NHS waiting lists it would make most sense.

As for the suicidal thoughts, it was very alarming for us to hear this as he presents so happy to us and others on the outside. We discussed it with him and were satisfied that it was an expression of unhappiness rather than an actual intention to do something. I am keeping a close eye on his mood and behaviour though and hoping that school counselling will give him a safe space to talk.

OP posts:
poppyzbrite4 · 22/09/2024 21:33

I don't think it's healthy for anyone to not get fresh air, exercise or to socialise. I'm not surprised he feels down if his world is so small.

Counselling sounds like a good idea but is there nothing in the area he can get involved with? Have you looked at meetup.com to see what's going on in the area?

Even board game evenings where he can meet other people, is better than feeding his Roblox addiction. What about the gym, swimming, wall climbing, film club, hiking groups, a course, anything to get him out of the house.

Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 21:41

poppyzbrite4 · 22/09/2024 21:33

I don't think it's healthy for anyone to not get fresh air, exercise or to socialise. I'm not surprised he feels down if his world is so small.

Counselling sounds like a good idea but is there nothing in the area he can get involved with? Have you looked at meetup.com to see what's going on in the area?

Even board game evenings where he can meet other people, is better than feeding his Roblox addiction. What about the gym, swimming, wall climbing, film club, hiking groups, a course, anything to get him out of the house.

Edited

Thanks very much for your message.

I totally agree!

over the years he has done hockey, piano lessons, kids choir, cubs, swimming lessons, climbing lessons. We have tried so many things. It seems like nothing sticks to light a fire under him.

Currently he is out of the house a fair bit either at school or in his pt job but none of it adds up to a social life. It’s very sad to witness.

he is talking about taking a year out after A levels but both me and Dh think he would be better going to uni and in a new environment. It’s up to him though and I would be worried he’d sink at uni without some support.

OP posts:
poppyzbrite4 · 22/09/2024 21:47

Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 21:41

Thanks very much for your message.

I totally agree!

over the years he has done hockey, piano lessons, kids choir, cubs, swimming lessons, climbing lessons. We have tried so many things. It seems like nothing sticks to light a fire under him.

Currently he is out of the house a fair bit either at school or in his pt job but none of it adds up to a social life. It’s very sad to witness.

he is talking about taking a year out after A levels but both me and Dh think he would be better going to uni and in a new environment. It’s up to him though and I would be worried he’d sink at uni without some support.

It sounds like he just needs a bit of encouragement as he does do things when prompted. It's very annoying when they don't show initiative but if he's willing I would see what's out there and take him there.

The more reclusive you become the less easy it is to get out of the rut. Even a kick about down the local park on a Sunday would be great. He'd get to know some other locals.

They share houses at university or live in dorms, they also meet people on the course, so it's far easier to meet people.

HighCholesterolHorror · 22/09/2024 21:50

I have sent you a pm op

Phineyj · 22/09/2024 21:53

Some universities are pretty good at supporting neurodiverse students these days (if it turns out he is). My friend works as a mentor for one.

I suggest you work backwards from the future so to speak. I reckon there will be useful threads on Higher Education on here discussing support at different unis.

MindJam would be a good website to visit now. Could match your son's needs rather well.

mindjam.org.uk/

Octavia64 · 22/09/2024 22:00

This does not sound normal.

In particular the discussion of suicide with a cousin who he is leaning on.

I don't know about neurodiversity but he sounds depressed and anxious and if he is having suicidal thoughts then things are not going well.

Personally I would not be exploring neurodiversity as autism waitlists for diagnosis are years long and you are years too late for any interventions like social stories to help him,
ADHD also has long waitlists unless you go private (although he sounds more inattentive add than classic adhd) and private is the wrong side of a grand plus private prescriptions.

You need to get him to the GP and explore how to help him with his depression and anxiety (at a minimum he likely has social anxiety)

Teens with autism and or adhd often develop social anxiety as they know they do not fit in.

Musogirl1975 · 22/09/2024 22:30

Octavia64 · 22/09/2024 22:00

This does not sound normal.

In particular the discussion of suicide with a cousin who he is leaning on.

I don't know about neurodiversity but he sounds depressed and anxious and if he is having suicidal thoughts then things are not going well.

Personally I would not be exploring neurodiversity as autism waitlists for diagnosis are years long and you are years too late for any interventions like social stories to help him,
ADHD also has long waitlists unless you go private (although he sounds more inattentive add than classic adhd) and private is the wrong side of a grand plus private prescriptions.

You need to get him to the GP and explore how to help him with his depression and anxiety (at a minimum he likely has social anxiety)

Teens with autism and or adhd often develop social anxiety as they know they do not fit in.

Thanks for your reply.

I think the reason we didn’t intervene with any investigations earlier is that he has generally coped very well in life and even when there have been red flags, they were not holding him back. The tipping point has come with the collapse of his friendship group which he has understandably not been able to recover from. These social issues have been much more noticeable in adolescence for sure.

he definitely has some social anxiety and I agree he needs help with it sooner rather than later. He has been open discussing these issues with me tonight which I am grateful for.

I’m so glad I posted this as I really wasn’t sure it would help but it’s clarified my feeling that the situation isn’t healthy and he needs intervention in some form or other.

OP posts:
Juicecharger · 22/09/2024 23:13

Hi. As a clinical psychologist, I think there is enough going on from your description to warrant a psychiatric assessment. He may have traits of autism/ADHD without having the disorders themselves and his current symptoms could well be depression reactive to the issue with his friend that has ultimately left him isolated. On the positive side, he is willing to open up to someone i.e. his cousin, so he is able to articulate his feelings which is great. In terms of who to see, I would suggest that he he see, privately, a child and adolescent psychiatrist who has expertise in ADHD and autism - all psychiatrists will have experience of depression - and who has worked in the NHS and has good testimonials. Basically you need someone who can assess him in his entirety and consider all possible diagnosis/presentations. I would definitely not let him be assessed by the commercial ADHD clinics who advertise rapid assessment etc as lots of those people have no clinical background and can only assess ADHD. A psychiatrist can recommend (and prescribe) medication, if need, and the most appropriate therapy, again if needed. On the positive side, he has really supportive, thoughtful parents. Wishing you all the best.

Musogirl1975 · 23/09/2024 09:59

Juicecharger · 22/09/2024 23:13

Hi. As a clinical psychologist, I think there is enough going on from your description to warrant a psychiatric assessment. He may have traits of autism/ADHD without having the disorders themselves and his current symptoms could well be depression reactive to the issue with his friend that has ultimately left him isolated. On the positive side, he is willing to open up to someone i.e. his cousin, so he is able to articulate his feelings which is great. In terms of who to see, I would suggest that he he see, privately, a child and adolescent psychiatrist who has expertise in ADHD and autism - all psychiatrists will have experience of depression - and who has worked in the NHS and has good testimonials. Basically you need someone who can assess him in his entirety and consider all possible diagnosis/presentations. I would definitely not let him be assessed by the commercial ADHD clinics who advertise rapid assessment etc as lots of those people have no clinical background and can only assess ADHD. A psychiatrist can recommend (and prescribe) medication, if need, and the most appropriate therapy, again if needed. On the positive side, he has really supportive, thoughtful parents. Wishing you all the best.

Thank you so much for this helpful reply.

i agree that it’s possible he doesn’t have enough traits for a diagnosis of either adhd or asd but he does have some and that’s why it’s been tricky deciding whether to investigate or not.

He said to me last night that he ‘feels different’ to others at school and that’s why he can’t connect. He says people don’t get him and think he’s ’weird’. Quite heartbreaking to hear!

School counselling starts in a week and he is willing to engage in it. Will see how this goes but may do some research in the meantime into other clinicians as you suggested.

OP posts:
Mammillaria · 23/09/2024 10:54

does he need a diagnosis or just more time to grow up and find himself?

It sounds like he needs support with social interactions and friendships, and support with organising himself and his workload. A diagnosis might help him access support, or it might be that you can access this support without one.

Can you find any real-world Roblox or gaming communities locally where he might be motivated to attend and contribute? If he does go to university, pick one with a good gaming society. Does he have friends on Roblox of a similar age who live in the UK that he could meet up with? Obviously with your help and following all safe meeting protocols. Basically, can you use the one thing he does love as a springboard to wider social interaction.

Musogirl1975 · 23/09/2024 14:02

Mammillaria · 23/09/2024 10:54

does he need a diagnosis or just more time to grow up and find himself?

It sounds like he needs support with social interactions and friendships, and support with organising himself and his workload. A diagnosis might help him access support, or it might be that you can access this support without one.

Can you find any real-world Roblox or gaming communities locally where he might be motivated to attend and contribute? If he does go to university, pick one with a good gaming society. Does he have friends on Roblox of a similar age who live in the UK that he could meet up with? Obviously with your help and following all safe meeting protocols. Basically, can you use the one thing he does love as a springboard to wider social interaction.

Thanks very much for your reply.

I have to say I’d never considered that as an option to use Roblox to help him find friends as I think of it as a bad and time sapping thing which I’d actively like to get him away from! We have considered banning it in the past and have had varying degrees of success trying to minimise his time on it but as he gets closer to 18 this all seems futile. It’s his safe space and it gives him happiness when everything else may feel quite unhappy to him right now. If there is a real world club of some sort it might be a good way to meet new people. I’ll definitely look into it.

OP posts:
Musogirl1975 · 23/09/2024 14:20

Phineyj · 22/09/2024 21:53

Some universities are pretty good at supporting neurodiverse students these days (if it turns out he is). My friend works as a mentor for one.

I suggest you work backwards from the future so to speak. I reckon there will be useful threads on Higher Education on here discussing support at different unis.

MindJam would be a good website to visit now. Could match your son's needs rather well.

mindjam.org.uk/

Thanks so much for posting this link. I’ve just checked it out and it looks like a perfect fit for him 🙏

OP posts:
angstypant · 24/09/2024 08:13

@Juicecharger

I would definitely not let him be assessed by the commercial ADHD clinics who advertise rapid assessment etc as lots of those people have no clinical background and can only assess ADHD.
I'm not sure you are correct. I was looking at various online providers and the clinicians were all active NHS clinical psychiatrists

They are all members of the GMC and Royal College of Psychiatrists and many hold or held senior positions on health boards and councils.

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