Unmotivated self destructive teens - does it get better?

[Wowwellokthen]

Sorry - long post!

I have a 17yr old DD who is incredibly lazy and unmotivated. As a child she was an academic scholar....naturally not coached....and was sociable and fun to be around. Quite a normal countryside childhood I think.

From around 13, she had been immersed in the online world and has claimed to be a number of things....gay/bi/trans...now I'm not sure...I never reacted negatively to any of these announcements just passive I suppose. She has never had a boy or girlfriend. Not particularly relevant but sets the scene a little. She is into cosplay and has a big following on TikTok.

After scraping passes in GCSEs - which she honestly didn't care about and she wouldn't even remember what grades she got now. She refused to go back to her small and supportive private school so I helped her get a place on an appropriate course at a local college that she was interested in. This is only 2 days per week so I said to her that she should get a part time job for at least 2 of the remaining days.

She had 3 part time jobs September to May and was fired from each of them after a month or two. Now, she refuses to look for one and is incredibly picky with what she will do job wise. I have tried to help her apply and take her to interviews but when she gets the job she ghosts them.

I have tried to encourage her creativity with the cosplay and showed her courses at unis and further Ed colleges, in theatrical make up and costume design to improve her future job prospects- she's not interested.

She doesn't really have any friends - she is quite self absorbed so they lose interest after a while. She doesn't go anywhere....ever....unless I make her come out with us for a meal or cinema but that tends to be a battle and quite an unpleasant experience. She doesn't get out of bed until about 4pm and stays up all night online.

I don't give her any money - as it has been spent on gaming or crap from Temu. Her room is an absolute bomb site and she locks the door so I can't get in. She won't tidy it and if I manage to get in there - like every 6 months - she trashes it again within hours. I don't do her laundry...I would if she brought it out or downstairs....she doesn't care and wears dirty pjs all day. She won't come down for meals and eats any treats I buy for the rest of the family.

I am currently trying to get her to learn to drive so she could be more independent as we have to drive her to college/work as she are rural - nearest bus stop 50 min walk through woods/fields. She refused to get up and go to her lesson today as she is too ill.

She doesn't respond to threats, demands, love bombing and seeing me cry (rare but has happened a couple of times) doesn't move her at all.

Anyone been through something similar and have successfully come out the other side!? Looking for positive support as I'm at the end of my tether!

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.

I am certainly not adversed to getting her assessed if warranted.

DD is not anxious from what I can see and will quite confidently walk into interviews and is very eloquent when talking to strangers/potential employers. But I will explore this avenue too - thank you.

I will speak to my mother about the possible internet nighttime shut down. Would be good for me too! #phonedowngotosleep!

Thank you - this is very interesting to hear from someone who has been through this.

When you say "drugs" what type do you mean and how does it help? TIA

I have ADHD - wasn't picked up when I was at school, because it just wasn't then, unless you were extremely hyperactive to the point of dangerous and probably a boy. The fact it can present as a combination of disorganisation, time blindness, sleep troubles (esp a shifted sleep schedule) emotional dysregulation (mood swings) and struggles with motivation and habit forming was a complete surprise to me, as I struggled with all of these things from about the age of 14. I only learnt that these symptoms are part of the inattentive side of ADHD - on MN actually - when I was 25. That was before the current ridiculous waiting lists so I was diagnosed at 26. I'm 36 now, and I have my own teenager (you can do the maths).

I am not and have never been hyperactive, and I wouldn't even say that I have problems paying attention, though this is a bit misleading - I've realised later on, that the issue here is that I've always been curious and interested in a huge variety of things, and if I'm interested, then I'll have an almost too-strong tendency to pay attention to that thing, to the exclusion of everything else. I am not good at maintaining attention in something which isn't interesting to me - I don't tolerate boredom very well, and will usually zone out/daydream if I can't look at my phone. It's probably sheer luck that I did well at school because of a combination of having enough intelligence that I could coast by on very little active effort, combined with just happening not to find any of the subjects boring (apart from RE - I did absolutely terribly in RE!)

It really can look like extreme laziness from the outside. I wasn't vocal about label seeking as a teenager, because the internet was a much more private thing then, but I was definitely doing exactly as Nn describes - looking for something/anything which would explain why I didn't seem to fit in or why nothing ever seemed to work, especially when I'd been doing brilliantly at school all the way up to GCSEs with all my teachers delivering glowing praise and promises of all these amazing things I was going to get up to (which never happened, because I couldn't manage the organisation, self-motivation and time management required to complete any post-16 education.)

I am on medication now and it makes a huge difference. What I've learnt since diagnosis is that people with ADHD have a difference in the brain where neurotransmitters which are supposed to "deliver" motivation and planning from one part of the brain to the other don't get through properly, like the signal is patchy. Medication helps boost the signals so that they work correctly. But people with ADHD will always struggle more with things like planning, organisation and time management because these brain processes also don't develop properly - and they haven't finished developing even in average teenagers, which is why a lot of the ADHD symptoms overlap with "normal teenager syndrome" and it can be a bit tricky to work out what's ADHD and what's teenage hormones got a bit out of hand.

I believe that what was happening for me at school is that the external structure and support from teachers and parents was all holding me up and then at the point where they were all retracting because most people have developed enough of those skills to stand on their own two feet - mine were too shaky so I collapsed instead.

I don't know if your DD has ADHD or not but you do mention enough signs (bright but suddenly fallen off the tracks as soon as self-motivation is required, chronically online, creative, sociable/fun but has now driven people away due to seeming self-absorbed, trouble keeping jobs, disordered sleeping pattern, impulsive, disorganised/untidy, argumentative, normal parental discipline not effective, not interested in future plans or doesn't make steps towards them) to warrant an enquiry, IMO. And if you do make an enquiry, find out what happens when she turns 18 as you don't want to invest time into a waiting list which just evaporates when she hits 18 if you can help it.

Ultimately she doesn't sound very happy. Apols this will sound patronising but can't think of how else to word it - have you tried asking her for her point of view, without it being about solving the problem or jumping in with suggestions or fixes? Just trying to get her perspective of what life is like for her day to day? It is not meant to be a patronising question and I hope you'll understand what I mean - I think sometimes as parents we can get caught up in feeling like we have to "make" them do something and get stuck in this fear that if we don't then they won't, and we kind of forget to slow down and just listen to them.

It sounds more like autism or AuDHD to me to be honest. But there's certainly something going on and you need external help.

So my DD is on concerta, she has a long acting one which she takes when she gets up and a short acting one which she takes at lunchtime.

Once on the drugs, she has been able to continue with her academic work (she is doing a degree in physics at Newcastle) and procrastinates less.

Off drugs (which she was briefly this summer as we had supply issues) she turns nocturnal, forgets to eat, gets sucked into her book/crochet whatever for 5 hours. Not joking.

@Octavia64
Can I ask if your DD takes extended release (12 hour) concerta as well as a short release in the afternoon?

My Dd is on extended release and finds it wears off around late afternoon. We asked the psychiatrist about an afternoon top up and she was against it as it could affect sleep.
We do need one to last till about 10 or so but not much luck there.

Sorry OP for hijacking your thread.
Xx

Yes, extended release and then short release.

My DD was finding the same, that it wore off late afternoon.

You need to get her off the internet overnight urgently

I don't remember writing this post... 🤔

For those saying neurodiversity, I agree, but don't think a diagnosis would have helped. Mine has a diagnosis of both ASD and ADHD (I was told mild and middling between both) but the early diagnosis hasn't prevented what you are experiencing, word for word. I wonder if your dd is up all night speaking to mine. Nearly all her 'friends' are online.

I delayed, and then had strict settings until mine was 16 and my DD is still the same as the OP at 17. It's really not that simple sadly.

Change the locks on her bedroom door.