When bullying isn't bullying

[Fratch]

Hi, my daughter is 15 and at a local grammar school, she is smart, funny and has a small group of friends that she really gels with. However, she isn't the kind of 15 year old that wants to chase boys, wear makeup and talk about clothes, she, likes to study and gets annoyed with people that disrupt the class. This appears to have made her the target for some unwanted attention from the "cool" girls and one in particular that really seems to have taken a dislike to her. The trouble is I know she is quite highly strung and there is nothing concrete that she can give me that this girl is doing, but she is getting really upset that the girl is taking her friends away (or trying to) and I don't know how to deal with this. She doesn't want me to speak to the school because she has no proof, but when we picked her up yesterday from her practice Dof E excursion, she got into the car and burst into tears and ended up sleeping with me last night because she was so upset by the girl's behaviour. Any thoughts please?

What is actually happening, bullying doesn't have to be physical or name calling, even excluding her or dirty looks can be classed as bullying although harder to prove. Don't dismiss your daughter feelings, but until you know what's happening you can only support her.

Thank you. That's the problem I think, it is so hard to prove, its saying things behind her back, encouraging her best friend to nasty behaviour, in the case of this weekend's adventure, walking off with the map and leaving my daughter and the rest of the group behind or blaming her for pitching their tent too near the "noisy boys" when they actually arrived first. But its all hearsay and I am not dismissing my daughter's feelings, my comment about her being highly strung was to demonstrate that this sort of behaviour really impacts her, she isn't thick skinned and can't just dismiss it as mean girl behaviour but thinks she must be doing some thing wrong which is really unfair. I want to speak to the school but I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

she isn't the kind of 15 year old that wants to chase boys, wear makeup and talk about clothes, she, likes to study and gets annoyed with people that disrupt the class.

This got me a bit. Does your DD appear a bit arrogant towards other kids? You don't need to answer here, but these sorts of attitudes don't sit very well with peers.

where does mean behaviour end and bullying start? It sounds like this girl just doesn’t actually like your daughter and is using her influence with the others to get them onside.
it’s really tough and most kids (adults) go through something like this at some point, but it’s miserable and I sympathise.

however one refers to this behaviour, the only way I know to cope with it is self confidence. If your daughter works on that, the other girls behaviour can’t touch her. This means bolstering her at every opportunity, pointing out how she overcame things in the past, maybe some volunteer role or part time job? Or taking her and a few select friends away to bond their friendships?

Why is it arrogant to not want to follow the crowd? And why should she worry about how that sits with her peers? Maybe her peers shouldn't be so suspicious of, or feel insecure about, someone who makes different choices to them?

I'd say you need to help her work on her own self esteem and assertiveness.
She is reasonable to be upset by this behaviour and if she becomes comfortable with assertively choosing when and how to point out that its upsetting her, she will be able to feel more in control of her response and therefore less powerless and upset.

Is there a teacher she gets on with that she could talk about it with or a school counsellor?

It's hard to tell without being there but that sounds like a really strong reaction from your DD. I wouldn't accuse any individual but I'd be discreetly speaking to her teacher because I'd be surprised if her behaviour was coming from nothing.

Why is it arrogant to not want to follow the crowd? And why should she worry about how that sits with her peers? Maybe her peers shouldn't be so suspicious of, or feel insecure about, someone who makes different choices to them?

If one acts superior than "the crowd" - yes, that's quite arrogant and gives off an unfriendly vibe to the collective. And obviously the girl worries that classmates don't like her.

Just contact the school with what you've written here and direct it to her pastoral lead. Low level bullying behaviour is not uncommon in schools and the pastoral lead will ask teacher to keep an eye on them due to friendship issues, reseat them if they are near each other to give your Dd some respite and so that any unkind behaviour can be picked up and not just brushed off.

its saying things behind her back, encouraging her best friend to nasty behaviour, in the case of this weekend's adventure, walking off with the map and leaving my daughter and the rest of the group behind or blaming her for pitching their tent too near the "noisy boys" when they actually arrived first. But its all hearsay

This is not hearsay if it actually happened - walking off with the map, leaving her behind, blaming for the tent pitch.

Support you daughter by saying - Unfortunately toxic people exist, I believe you. How do you want to deal with it?

Stop talking about her being sensitive or highly strung - humans feel upset when others are horrid to them. Make it clear you are on her side and encourage her to report.

Also - your thread title makes no sense - what your DD is experiencing IS bullying.

Sounds like the other girl wants her out of the group and finds your Dd annoying. My same age Dd is fierce about us not contacting school so I would be slow to do that. If you do you will hear “the other side” and it may blow up.

Agree with the comments about supporting her and saying there will always be difficult people unfortunately and you need to develop techniques for not letting them get to you. Possibly arrange something fun / desirable for the Dd and the best friend to solidify that friendship?

Sounds like the other girl wants her out of the group and finds your Dd annoying. My same age Dd is fierce about us not contacting school so I would be slow to do that. If you do you will hear “the other side” and it may blow up.

When adults interfere in teen drama it will surely blow up. And realistically the school cannot make children LIKE each other.

Exactly. That was the schools conclusion last week when a girl who had been consistently unpleasant to Dd for months was thankfully dropped from their friendship group for finally showing her true colours and being equally as unpleasant to several of the stroppier girls in the group.

Without trying to sound snobby about the girls being nasty, in my experience the bullies are usually not the bright kids in the year. Could she try to aim higher with friends and leave them behind her? Dd is similar age and has noticed the girls in the lower sets are boy/clothes/makeup/vape obsessed and bully anyone who has any other interests or has a brain. I think it probably shows your dd has something intrinsic they can't get with money.

Without trying to sound snobby about the girls being nasty, in my experience the bullies are usually not the bright kids in the year. Could she try to aim higher with friends and leave them behind her?

This is the sort of attitude that will do them no favors. Of course, seek friendships and interact with people that share your interests and values. But when one acts snotty and like others are beneath them - then enjoy being excluded forever.

On the one hand it is shit when kids do this and it IS definitely low level bullying. On the other bad your Dd is an easy target.

In society we have to be able to rub along with everyone and roll with things. So I would suggest your DD gets involved so when the girls are snide she needs to laugh it off. And really meet them with confidence and lightness. Show them that it doesn’t bother her.

So if they say something like - oh his here we go again, rule book being teachers pet! She should laugh and say- oh yeah working hard what a melt. Let me know if you need any help! Ha ha . So showing them she gets the joke, poking fun at herself but also standing her ground.

Bullies do it because they can. They bother and the people rise to it. Either by getting upset. Or fighting or reacting. Laughing just takes the wind out.

Thank you everyone for your comments, I found them very helpful. This has been on and off for about 18 months and I have been so proud of how she has coped. I have told her on several occasions that the fact that she does't want to just go along with the crowd despite their attitude, shows how strong she is. We discussed this again this morning before school and she is sad, but doesn't want me to "do" anything, which is fair, its just tough when as a mum you want to fix everything for them and realise that they do reach a stage where a plaster and a hug won't solve everything. She is outwardly fairly confident but still not very tough inside but I will continue to support her and as long as she keeps talking to me, I think we will get through this together.

Well you can't help what you see and no point in pretending it's kids who have their shit together. Thankfully my dd hasn't been targeted but she isn't in their sets which is lucky. Yes getting along and not being offended would help but recognising who and why they bully is part of not being bothered by it.

Things change very quickly too. Think the above good advice keep it light but push back is good. . Gets the respect of the other girls. Getting mum involved or having a massive strop will be counter productive

Honestly it sounds like you’re a bully yourself. You obviously think it’s ok to bully people for having different interests to you and not fawning over the popular kids.

OP this IS bullying. You need to speak to the school and have them keep your DD apart from the bully. The school can’t make them be friends but they can separate them and warn them to stay apart.

Well you can't help what you see and no point in pretending it's kids who have their shit together. Thankfully my dd hasn't been targeted but she isn't in their sets which is lucky.

But OPs DD is clearly upset at being openly disliked and excluded. She maybe smarter and more mature than the other girls, but her own social skills may need improvement too.

Been there myself, now having the same with my own kid. Frustrating, but its not always someone else's fault. To put it very simply - if you want friends, you need to be more friendly.

Honestly it sounds like you’re a bully yourself. You obviously think it’s ok to bully people for having different interests to you and not fawning over the popular kids.

If someone acts all stuck up and superior, i surely wouldn't like them or want to be friends. As an adult i'd be as civil as possible, but teenage me would probably act snide.
And i'm not sure what do you expect school to do if it isn't open aggression. They won't get involved in teen drama.

This is basically victim blaming and it’s disgusting.

This is basically victim blaming and it’s disgusting.

Self reflection isn't blaming. I'm just picking up on quite unpleasant attitudes displayed here.

Agree.