Does anyone else have a teen who is bordering on becoming a school refuser?

[JMSA]

I'd love to hear from you if so, because I feel wretched.
This concerns my nearly 15 year old daughter, who is the youngest of 3 girls. Primary school went fine, years 7 and 8 went fine (I think that's the first and second year of high school in England - we're in Scotland). In year 9, she started to refuse to go in some days, as she really hated the private school she attended. I tried to work with her and the school, but she was miserable and it just didn't work. She's not an academic child - truth be told, school has never really been her bag - and the days there were too long for her, with compulsory sports after school and a longish coach ride home.
At her request, I moved her to the local secondary school. She has friends there and I was hopeful that a fresh start and shorter day (a 5 - 10 minute walk home!) would be beneficial to her. And for the record, I've never been a pushy parent. All I've ever done is encourage her to try her best and to be polite and respectful in school (her behaviour has never been an issue in school, so that's something at least!).
She started at the local school last Monday and attended every day but Wednesday. She refused to go in because her two friends were on a school trip, and she didn't feel ready to do it without them. Ideally she'd have had the resilience to get through this challenge, but we are where we are.
It just feels absolutely awful, when your child won't go to school. I always thought 'that would never be me - I'd drag them out of their bed!' But actually, you can't
She is so incredibly stubborn. I have always encouraged my girls to communicate with me, but she's such a closed book emotionally and puts up such barriers. At home, she's really grumpy. Consequences don't work either.

I'm on my own with my 3 and work full-time (ironically, in a secondary school!), and some mornings I've had to stop myself from bursting into tears on the bus to work. I'm a good mum but feel like such a failure on the mornings that I can't get her in.
All I want is for her to be happy, to be in school and to be achieving in whatever way that means for her. I worry about the future too.
The girls see their dad regularly, but he's not very supportive of me. She would go in for him, of that I'm sure, as he can be a bit scary when opposed (in the strict sense, not abusive). But he refuses to have her on school nights, to give me a break. He is very career focused.
I've tried gentle parenting, being strict, open and communicative, proactive when dealing with all of this and liaising with school, being present and giving her space. Everything. My older daughters tell me I'm doing a great job, but it doesn't feel that way.
The thought of things going wrong at the new school is pretty soul-destroying. And I hate waking up in the morning, not knowing how it's going to go. The uncertainty is awful. And yes, we have nightly check-ins to quickly chat about the day ahead, but she has still previously backed out of going.
Please can anyone help or advise. It used to be that she would do as I asked, but now it feels like she is the one holding the power.
School refusal is singularly the most difficult cycle to break. So how do I do it, especially without back up or support?
Thank you ... and please don't judge me

Sorry for some reason that linked to a Stranger Things event!

This is the correct link

stevebheadteacher.wordpress.com/2023/08/29/school-on-fire/

My 10 year old has not been to school at all for 7 weeks - after about 2 years of slowly more and more refusal.

Nobody knows OP unless they live through it. Nobody wants this for their child - no child wants to be in this situation either. I have seen my child punch herself in the face / scratch herself/ use hard objects on her own head to tell me she can't face it.

you could meet my child and say 'oh she doesn't look autistic' - as SO many people have said to me.

but she is not like other children and she can't cope. its bloody stressful Op

My daughter had a late ASD diagnosis, after the wheels fell off in Yr 7. She became anxious, depressed, self-harmed, situationally mute and attempted suicide several times. By Yr 10, she barely went to school and she hated leaving the house so we couldn’t either at the same time. We stopped trying to make her go to school after the last two suicide attempts and with a mixture of an alternative provision, tutors that we paid for and us (I’m a teacher), she did very well at GCSE. She is back in mainstream doing A-Levels and doing well.

I wanted to share this because when she was 15, I didn’t think she’d make it to 16. Now, at 17, we can see she has the chance of a decent future. There are still difficulties, meltdowns and bad days but things are so much better than they were two years ago. We were lucky in that unlike many others, our CAMHS support has been amazing and her mainstream school has been very supportive. There is help out there - the local offer, possibly an autism support team etc at the council, charities, lots of online GCSE resources, especially post-Covid. Push hard for an EHCP and appeal it if refused.

Sending handholds to the other parents of EB school-refusers but know that things, gradually, can get better.

Try taking the phone laptop and internet away completely she will soon change her mind I'm sure

Did you write that thinking you were funny? Was it an attempt to be cool? Genius.

This could easily be a genuine post

There are many people who think that way

Before I even finished reading the OP I was thinking autism, the fact that her sister has it makes it far more likely and that either you or her dad are also autistic.

The chances are it's all stress / anxiety related but an assessment will allow you to help her better and for her to understand why she is the way she is. Parent her as of she is autistic until you know otherwise.

Communicate with school, explain her sister is autistic and you recognize similar traits in your DD. Ask them what they can do to ease the transition in the mornings, can she go in a different entrance that's less busy, can she have a key point of contact she can go to when feeling overwhelmed, do they have a quiet space during unstructured times she can access etc.

OP I could have written this practically word for word. I am also in Scotland although my daughter is 13. She has diagnosed ADHD and is undergoing testing for autism (very slow process)

She was absolutely fine in primary never ever a problem all the teachers said they had high hopes for her etc then bamm high school and she has changed complete 180 turn I don't even recognize her. The past 2 years (1st and 2nd year) have been in no other word hell. When she goes to school she hates it causes no end of disruption to classes is rude and disrespectful to teachers etc or simply just doesnt bptjer to attend classes hiding out in the toilets etc..... that's if I can actually get her to go to school and some days she just downright refuses.

School put her on a restricted timetable of 3.5 hours a day about 8 weeks ago it made absolutely no difference at all she just argued with me longer in the morning about having to go - what's the point in 3.5 hours she would say 🤷 I really am at my wits end with her. School arent much help. Cahms just keep telling me to be patient.

Sorry OP I kinda derailed there. Your not alone it's bloody hard work you have my sympathies

Yes a bit like the ‘they’ll eat when they’re hungry’ brigade.

🌹for all those struggling.

There's always one.

@whyhavetheygotsomany

I think you are on the wrong thread. Anyone who has the slightest understanding or experience of this (or had anything to add of value) would certainly not be pedalling the shit you have just come out with.

Go and join crafts and ribbons or something rather than join and comment on a thread that you very clearly have no experience of.

You have my sympathy OP, our DD15 has been out of school since the first year if secondary, it's when the wheels fall off for lots of undiagnosed girls unfortunately. We tried a small independent, in the hope that would be easier (no uniform, lots of art and creative stuff which she lives) but after three years are accepting that hasn't worked and deregistering her altogether. During those years she's been diagnosed with ASD, OCD and PTSD, but it's incredible how little support has been available for any of it.

Given your eldest's diagnosis I would definitely look into getting her assessed, and chase the LA for alternative provision. The biggest thing for us has been trying to keep some semblance of a social life - she's been so lonely while she's been unable to go to school. Is there anything your DD does outside of school that will help her continue to mix with people her own age?

Oh get off the thread

I second the recommendation for NFIS - 'not fine in school' page on FB, there are over 59,000 people in that group which shows how many of us have had/are having to deal with this. My DS is in a better place now and making it in to school, but I remember spending 6 hours a day from 6.30am to lunchtime trying to get him in, both of us stressed, swinging from angry to gentle to upset and back again, it's so hard and people say things like 'just make him go in' ok and how shall I do that? Throw a very tall teenager over my shoulder and march him in?? It helped to keep on constant contact with the school (I know all schools differ though) and when I took him to see the doc who diagnosed anxiety it took the pressure off and school backed off. CAMHS did their best but overwhelmed with referrals so a long wait. There is always further education which is what I'm thinking of now for DS as I don't think he'll catch up. Don't lose hope, and if I could back on time I wouldn't be trying to force him in - it's so stressful for both of you x

This morning I told her 'if I end up in hospital with a heart attack, it's on you.'
I feel like the worst mother in the world.
She asked me to get her up at 6am, as it takes her an age to put her make-up on and get ready.
I knew she'd never get up that early, so waited a wee while to maximise her sleep. Then started waking her at 6.30 (still loads of time) and had to go in 4 times. She was dead to the world.
When she finally woke up, instead of getting ready a bit quicker to make up the time, she just lay there. She wouldn't get up. She said it was my fault because I didn't get her up on time.
So there is an element of choice at play here. If I had successfully got her up on time, I do think she'd have got ready.
There is zero fucking sense of responsibility and I am done.
And yes, I know it's not fully her fault but I'm still annoyed and not ready to accept that.
Part of the problem, I think, is the inconsistency. One day she'll get up and go just fine, the next she won't. I never know what I'm going to get and the uncertainty is awful.
Anyway, thanks for listening and for all the amazing info and advice. I'll read it all through properly tonight.

Op my son was exactly the same. I didn't know he was struggling at school and being bullied because he didn't tell me. Didn't want to worry me. Is something similar happening with your daughter??? Sending hugs x

And the highs and lows mean that I'm on high alert the whole time. In a good mood, or a sad one. It's exhausting and lonely.

I'm having similar issues with my 14yo. She was fine until year 9. There were some bullying issues at the start of the year but the school dealt with it swiftly and it's stopped.

We are just about getting her in 4 days a week. School have offered counselling but she won't engage with it.

She's a bright girl so getting away with it academically so far.

She isn't defiant to be fair - she's just very very upset when made to go in. She often can't sleep the night before school because she's so anxious. She won't eat in the morning either for the same reason. She's like a different child in term time to school holidays. It's like we get her back in the holidays - happy, chatty, sociable. Term time she's miserable, mono-syllabic. I also am constantly second guessing myself about whether to go hard and force her in or whether to just let her stay home.

I don't know what to do next. We've talked about moving school but I'm unconvinced it will help.

Sympathies to everyone going through it.

We had this with my second daughter when she was in year 9 (school in Aus) at 14 years.
We did the opposite of some of the responses here, but it still worked out well, maybe because she doesn’t have ASD/ADHD. She is clever though and has always been precocious with maths (could tell the time at 3, count to 100 at 2 years) and I do think sometimes that comes with its own differences?

It was horrific while it lasted. Every night there’d be an “illness” and a request to have the day off to rest. I’d get anxious in anticipation. There’d be a daily morning battle and then emails from her laptop at school or texts when she could wanting to be picked up.

She saw a private psychologist and refused to engage, she saw the school psychologist and refused to engage, at one point she had the head of year trying to entice her out of the toilets where she’d hidden (it’s funny now but it wasn’t then). Her grades dropped, she spent all of her free time in her room, she stopped going to swimming training.

She was horrible, rude, aggressive and nasty to her siblings. She kicked doors, leaving dents.

In retrospect, there was not one single thing wrong, but likely a whole lot of things that contributed to her losing her sense of self. She was (is) a very pretty girl (I’m biased, obviously) but developed acne, for the first year ever she wasn’t invited by the school to do external academic competitions in maths, she wasn’t bullied but her friendship groups were shifting and her swimming times weren’t great as she wasn’t training.

We made it clear that we weren’t facilitating her going to her current school if we had to battle with her but that she had to go to some form of school. We actively looked into enrolling her into the local school, which she didn’t want to go to. We did remove everything but Spotify and texting from her phone on refusal days - no way was she going to refuse to go to school then just scroll all day. We also encouraged her to give up swimming, saw a private dermatologist for her acne and I tried to be as nice as I could 😀. We allowed one day a term as a planned day off and I extended that to the days where she was a bit off with a cold.

Anyway, two years on and things are good. There’s no more refusal, she has taken on a brutal academic load with maths/science and thriving, including getting first year uni physics “out of the way” along with a full school load. She did this autonomously, the first I knew of it when I had to sign a form saying I was ok with the academic demand. She’s managing this with only an hour or so of study a night as well as competing nationally in another water based sport that she facilitated herself and also has a part time job.

I appreciate that our approach only worked because she didn’t actually to change schools and because she isn’t neurodiverse but if we’d let her not go, and stay at home, I suspect things would be different.

Interesting. I wonder whether we need to just push through the pain and make her go in. I made her go in yesterday and she spent the whole day crying and texting me to come home. She didn't get any work done. She tried to go to the 2 pastoral care places to speak to someone but nobody was around.

I've said she can stay home today because I don't see the point in forcing her in to just cry all day. I am going to ring round some local schools to see if they have any spaces and arrange to go and look round though.

This was my daughter. She was fine at primary school, just a bit quiet, but struggled after starting secondary. When I explored further I discovered that in many cases of EBSA it is because of neurodiversity. Lots of small things about my daughter started to add up and she now has a diagnosis of autism.

I've had to work a lot with the school to try to find solutions to help her. It's difficult if they can't articulate the specific things that she is anxious about. We have special seating arrangements, access to a pastoral space and now a reduced timetable. She's still extremely anxious.

I get frustrated sometimes but I would never punish her or remove devices. You wouldn't punish an adult for having difficulties with their mental health.

Yeah removing devices doesn't sit right with me but my daughter isn't remotely badly behaved - no attitude or stomping around or anything, just sobbing and begging not to go. It would feel like punishing her for being upset.

I’ve had this with dd a lot last year. She was legitimately off for a few weeks and after that, as you say, it was just a slippery slope.

I am taking a totally hands off approach now which seems counterintuitive but is working. She is 16 now so nobody is making her go to school apart from herself. I said don’t go if you want but then you’ll have to get a job. She seems motivated to do better than she has been doing as she gave herself a bit of a fright with the Nat 5 exams so she’s been going in. We’re not going to be there dragging them from bed when at uni or working so at some point they do have to take responsibility for it themselves.

This is how my DD is. Can your DD explain what causes her anxiety?

Not really but she isn't very resilient and gets very upset if she gets work wrong or the teacher gives her a minor telling off. So yesterday was a write off because she struggled with a maths test and convinced herself her teacher was going to shout at her.

We are thinking of getting some counselling for her outside of school to help with this.