18 year old DS upset about consent/misogyny talk

[unusualbusiness]

I recently had a talk with my 18DS about consent, boundaries, misogyny. I never really had that sort of talk with my mother and after previous posts realised it's probably important...

He honestly seemed really uncomfortable and defensive I'd even think he needed to be told about it and has been awkward/quiet ever since. I get how it may feel to him that I don't trust him but I needed to know he knew about these things...

Anyone else dealt with this something like this?

My 17/15 year told me all about the tea thing. And there was me asking my DH if wanted tea at all times of the day!
Never sat down to discuss it but do a 'by the way' over dinner of something similar is discussed.
Took 3 16 year old boys to Reading last year. I mentioned consent in the car as a breezy comment, they all nodded and went yes we know. I do think school cover a lot of this.

At 18 he will have been embarrassed and also you have left it way way too late.

My ExH did the birds and bees talk with my DS after he'd first had sex (and yes it was at a legal age)

My DS felt very much it was a parenting failure.

He’s probably wondering why you’re now talking about something he has known for 5 years.

Consent is a conversation that now starts before sex education. My ten year old son has had the tea video a long time now.

Your son probably feels conflicted you unintentionally have said you don't know him or his values. Apologise.

You have rose a very important reminder that these conversations need to be present from the early days. The safe sex and specific sex consent needs to be well established by 13/14. As data shows that is when some are engaged in sexual activity.

As PPs have said, probably should have been done earlier, but you did explain you were doing it because you hadn't already.

I always say to DC, I know you think I'm an old fool and that you find this mortifying, but it's literally my job as your Mum to have these conversations. This is mostly met with a slight eye roll, and a "I know Mum" and then we talk.

I don't think you have left it too late because it is never too late to have these discussions and for him to know your views on things. As long as you didn't withdraw him from PSHE he should have covered this at school already which might explain why he is rolling his eyes. There is also a long running joke that your mum shows you memes which are three years old when she finally sees them on her Facebook and I imagine that the tea video falls into that category for him (I agree it is a great video).

Unfortunately we had to have the consent discussions much earlier when they were in primary but it does mean that we now regularly discuss it in an informal way, especially if someone tries to hard to offer the family a cup of tea.

Maybe restart the conversation by saying that you realise now that he probably has covered that at school but you have only just seen the video. Ask him what other resources there are out there, for instance I was watching a documentary on PrEP and I admitted to my dc that I had not heard of the name before although I knew that medication existed I didn't know how effective it was.

Do you ever watch documentaries or films together? Maybe watching a few which provoke discussion would be worth considering. When I have time over the summer I might watch Baby Reindeer with my dc (similar age to your son).

Look at it as you learning from him as much as he is learning from you. It all helps to embed what you believe in him. Do be open to the possibility that he is gay or pan and try to be open in how you express your views of many different sexualities while still being clear about your absolute lines (respect, consent, spiking, impact of drugs in our household).

So you made him out to be an enemy and criminal before he has done something and now you wonder why he is upset?

Just because he is male does not mean he does not have his own feelings and beliefs and thoughts

Your child will have been having these conversations from age 11-12 at school. A number including my own have been having consent concept conversations, although not specifically sex, from primary.

If I was your son, I'd be very confused by the disconnect between my education and your awareness of it and motified given I'd assumed your just decided to leave these things to school.

18 is way too late as a conscious parent to be adressing these things. There is an argument that better late than ever but I'd assume it would come with a disclaimer that "I know I should have done this far younger but....".

Do you really believe your DS hasn't even kissed a girl yet? I'm not saying it isn't possible just highly unlikely. Way way to late

I think as others have said, and you have admitted yourself, it was just too late. I’ve been talking to my boys about consent since primary but then I’m a teacher so I do have a head start on knowing when this stuff is discussed in schools. I’m sure he’ll get over it 🥰

Also by waiting so late he's more likely to assume you've done it as a result of a specific concen or something someone has said to you.

Totally agree with this. I'm having these talks with my child now at 12 years old as it's pertinent.

I think you should probably apologise.

I would be very annoyed if somebody spoke to me like that when I had shown absolutely no signs of treating women in that way. A boy that age without a girlfriend may well be wondering why and if you suggest it's possible he treats women like that then I can see why he got angry and upset.

Honestly, its very weird. I'd be weirded out too. Your son is an ADULT. in present day climate, he'd have this message drummed into him by school and media since he was little.

PSHE lessons at school cover this stuff along with tailored assemblies for things like Andrew Tate. He’s probably embarrassed if you’ve never had these chats with him before. Is it a trust thing too?? I can’t decide. We speak openly in our house about these subjects, a conscious decision as they were never discussed when DH and were growing up.

Recently my DS18 watched Baby Reindeer and was talking about how scary he found the older male/drugs etc, etc scene. I pointed out that the fear DS felt is very real for women and far too often. He had never considered women live with that fear.

Likely embarrassed , feeling talked down to, maybe. Feels you are intruding on his private life/ inner world. Sex, girl/ boy friends etc can be awkward things to discuss with your mum, perhaps especially if you're a boy (I only have daughters).

If you explained how inappropriate Andrew Tate is maybe he is feeling a little guilty or embarrassed as he may have been watching his nonsense and not considered it as such.
He should have covered these topics in PSHE but maybe in the context of school didn't really pay attention then.

Or he may be being quiet for something completely unrelated. At least now you have shown him he can talk to you if he needs to.

Maybe he's feeling guilty about conversations amongst his peers.

Hi op

Hopefully I don’t have to put my hard hat on here but as a man who would identify as you have described your son I had to do a lot of long hard thinking and have a long hard look at myself to try to really get my head around some of the information/ concepts.

I certainly do not claim to be perfect but I’ve had subsequent difficult conversations with many grown men who also have reacted like your son has to me.

If you are a genuinely nice lad/ Man that can keep one’s hands to one’s self and wouldn’t even knowingly set out to make any woman upset or uncomfortable. Understanding that unfortunately that is definitely not the case for all of us and from looking at me how would a woman on a night bus know which one I am, can (and I know it is exceptionally lame) be a challenging concept.

The Margaret Allwood quote

“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them”

is one that had a profound effect on me if that helps.

You are where you are comments you to late are so unhelpful because your son like many men not had had a conversation about it at all and he’s had one with his mum 👍

He was very vocal about hating him, I don't think so.
I don't have concerns about him, he always had good female friends / was never disrespectful. And he's always been fine with expressing himself in a feminine way

Glad to say he's acting less awkward today but he was out early for a sleepover so I haven't seen much of him...

About PSHE as people have been talking about, in his school that's only a class in the first 2 years and was only about bullying/personal expression. He's said before he's never had any sex education/talk about boundaries apart from total abstinence. I think he was supposed to learn about it in RE but the teacher decided he didn't want to do it (my DD/his sister in the same class as him backs that up) so it never happened.

I'll be trying to discuss with him and apologising once he's back, I want to give him some time to be less embarrassed and have fun with his friends

I think the conversation is right, but its too late. We just did it earlier with our DS he was about 13 when we talked about abuse in partnerships, incel groups etc, with updated conversations about issues as they arose. Sex and consent discussion happened earlier as it was briefly covered in years 6 and 7 at school - so we just talked about them with him too.