dd previous suicidal thoughts/ attempts struggling how to parent her

[OfMyself]

I can give more details but the gist of it is dd14 is on waiting list to be diagnosed asd. she had a suicide atempt last year, she is a lovely girl and so thoughtful and sometimes her mood is great and she has lovely friends etc. but she struggles with certain things especially when she has a low mood.

main thing is school. she is clever and tries hard but being around everyone and especially some people who dont particularly like her. she struggles getting up in a o,rning and getting ready for school ,hates buses. ive tried to help where i can, wake her up with a cup of tea and make eggs for breakfast so shes set for the day. ive also said ill take her to school rather than her have to get the bus.
i have also got her in therapy but even though she says its good to talk and she loves her therapist im not sure its helping?

an example of how im struggling, she is on a downer the last couple of days and anything i ask is a big deal, can you bring your washing, can you put your clothes away etc. she says things like it makes her sad and she wants a lie down etc. ( she isnt like this all the time, she hangs out with her friends and has fun, is silly and messes about.) i have considered patholgical demand avoidance, but we are on the (long long ) waiting list,

im struggling to know how to but boundaries in place and make sure shes not just wasting away doing nothing. im almost scared to threaten consequences in case it causes a (dangerous) dip in her mental health, but i also feel like the more im making allowances for her, the more difficult it becomes for her to do certain things iem if shes having a very bad day mentally ive let her stay home, but then shes not learning any resilience but especially since last year ive been of the mind that well even if she misses loads of schol etc at least she is alive. but i think maybe im doing more harm than good?

im on my own and i just dont know how to do the best thing for her

Mainly her elder sister is a drama queen and fell out with loads of people and by default they think she is the same so don't like her. Also Classrooms etc really busy and loud, she has an exit pass where she can go to learning support which she is happy with but there's often people in there that have been sent to isolation so the badly behaved /disruptive children

TBH, there doesn't seem to be awful lot you can do in this situation on your own until she gets more support / a diagnosis to access more support

But having said that, if you maintain achievable boundaries for her behaviour at home - e.g. her washing to be done on such-and-such a day - it will help her to keep at least some things in her life within a normal routine

I'm sure you will keep telling her that it doesn't matter what her sister does and it doesn't mean she's the same - but it doesn't always help does it!

Are the school learning support doing anything at all to help? Because they definitely need to be involved - and they should be aware anyway x

Thank you I appreciate the support x

Because she struggled to get up and about in the morning, regardless of the time she goes to bed. If school started at midday till evening I think she would do much better (possibly the same with a lot of teenagers)

Thank you I'm definitely going to ask about this, there is one lesson (German ) that she really dislikes, mainly the teacher has no control and kids are a bit rowdy

This is one of my concerns. It spiralling to completely being unable to go to school

I think I need to arrange a meeting with school rather than the email communication we have had so far. They're sympathetic but obviously worried about her attendance

First of all, you sound like a really good mum and it is clear you are doing your best.

I don't have experience of ASD but my child has (diagnosed, not just worrying about stuff) anxiety. She has found a self-care app called Finch very helpful for keeping her on track with self-care. It's a virtual pet thing and there are rewards for completing tasks which could be things like tidying her room, having a shower, taking any medicine she needs, bringing her washing down, drinking enough water, eating fruit, getting up by X time, doing whatever makes her feel good (ideally not phone-based), making it into school. I guess you will know which things she needs support with. I got it on my phone too, and we can send each other positive thoughts (a high five, encouragement, hugs etc). It's really helped my DD to keep on track with doing the sorts of daily things that actually make her feel better in the long run but sometimes seem hard to start at the time and I would highly recommend.

The other thing that has really helped her is CBT. We were also on a waiting list, but it was such a long wait and we got the CBT for Dummies workbook which is surprisingly good and really helped start the process off. I don't know if this is suitable for your daughter but I am guessing that anyone who has felt suicidal is suffering from some bad self talk and this book and the homework it sets really helped during the wait for CAMHS help. Once DD got past the intro into the part where it starts to give homework, it really helped her.

I don't think stringent consequences are appropriate for anyone struggling with suicidal thoughts and I have fallen down here at times myself in the past. I've learnt to be kinder to everyone including myself. So I hope you can be kind to yourself as well. You are doing your best and nobody can ask more of you than that.

And very best of luck navigating it all. I think you will get there.

One thing to look into: hormone fluctuations can be incredibly difficult for women and girls with ADHD / Autism. We seem to be very sensitive to the shifts, even moreso than others. In perimenopause I ended up with PMDD and teenagers are facing the same rollercoaster. For me HRT has helped - it might be useful looking into the Pill or similar for your DD just to try and smooth out her cycle.

I think I need to arrange a meeting with school rather than the email communication we have had so far. They're sympathetic but obviously worried about her attendance

I think that's a really good idea that would help both you and the school and help to make things clearer?

Between you, I hope you can sort something out that will help to make DD more settled x

Those years were the worst with my now adult DD with ASD. I think what I learned was to get outside support and don’t try to be her “therapist” just be her mother. We had the mood swings and suicidal ideation. It is an incredibly hard stage. My DD has really come through it now aged 19.

One other thought, the therapist we eventually landed on did CBT and hypnotherapy, it was absolutely life changing for DD. The CBT worked really well with the highly rational ASD mind and the hypnosis was like magic for changing dysfunctional thought patterns. It was like 6 months of therapy in one session. I’ve never come across anything like it.

Gosh very similar story here too. 15dd and suicidal last year although she is diagnosed with ASD. Getting any support has been near impossible even after an overdose 😬😬.

Definitely keep the counsellor if she's finding tit useful. Mine won't see one 🙄.

I quite like some of the work of Dr Naomi fisher and did one of their seminars about demand avoidance.

Also neuro wilde on Facebook is worth a follow as she's quite good with pictures explaining things.

I think a lot of it is around reducing expectations and "demands" when they're already overwhelmed with school.

And yes meet with school to discuss likely diagnosis/what you and she think might help. Definitely easier to meet. Does she have an iep? There are strategies that might help.

Main thing is to feel you're on her side and are putting supports in at home, reducing demands and giving her space to recover.

Almost in tears reading this thank you so much. I'm constantly doubting myself. Am I too soft on her, is it unfair to her siblings who I don't give quite as much leeway? Am I letting her get what she wants all the time because I'm scared she will do something and is this going to cause her to struggle further in the adult world

Thank you I will look into this. She can't go on the combined pill though but I will speak to the gp

Thank you x

Thank you, I'm so glad your daughter is doing better. It's a horrible feeling being so helpless

I don't suppose if you're within a few hours of Lancashire you could recommend them?

Thing is we can't learn /grow/develop when we are in a crisis. So when our body is in fight/flight or struggling to cope that's not going to be the time to learn new skills. It just won't work.

So we need to get to a place of calm (sometimes that might look like regressing or "doing nothing") before we can learn a bit more.

I think we expect so much of teenagers with the pressure in schools and curriculum at the moment and add in autism or anxiety and it is really overwhelming especially for anyone not particularly school shaped.

I try to reduce pressure at home so that she uses the resources she has to cope with school but it's hard.

We literally ended up driving to school too!!

Thanks so much I will definitely look into these

If it helps:

I worked in education for twenty years.

Certainly at my school it was very common for children with ASD or anxiety to be given exit passes/drop some classes/ear defenders etc.

All of them except one were able to continue coming into school and all of them got GCSEs. (There was one who was very bad and she sat exams at home).

We had multiple children per year in this situation.

It was common before the pandemic and it's even more common now. If you meet with the school they will have things they can offer.

Thank you :)

I'm in a very similar situation with my 14yo, also waiting for an autism assessment, also struggled with suicidal thoughts and intent and school seems to be the biggest factor despite having friends and not experiencing bullying. Private therapy/CBT also not helped although she did engage and did enjoy it. I think we've had a better experience with school than you have though. We took DD to hospital a couple of months ago with suicidal thoughts/plans - she was in a very shutdown state and not speaking or eating. After this school offered a reduced timetable and this actually seems to have helped much more than anything else we tried. She goes in after tutor to avoid the rush and then I collect her before period 7, or she stays if she's feeling up to it. Teachers are helpful and supportive in helping her to keep up with anything she missed. She also has an exit card and other accommodations/support but on their own they weren't enough.
At home I have to really pick my moments if I want her to do anything and we've had months where I basically didn't ask her to do anything at all. I even tidied her room myself. She's better in the holidays though and seems to be recovering a bit from that really bad time so I can ask her to do more than a couple of months ago and did during half term.
She's not a school refuser but she does have low attendance through a mixture of physical and mental health (it's just under 70% for the year so far) but I feel like we've been really well supported by school.

Thank you I do think a reduced timetable will really help. I've been into school today and asked for head of year to give me a call to arrange a meeting to discuss so hopefully they will be as helpful as you have experienced

That sounds good, well done.

I was thinking about this last night and it was easier for me as I just have one child so didn't have to worry about treating other children differently. Are your other children aware of their sister's difficulties? Are they old enough to understand what she is going through? It might be worth an explicit conversation with them about her being unwell and that you can see they might feel like you are being harder on them sometimes but in fact they are very fortunate that they are not unwell and that's why, because she can't cope with things that they can. Sometimes things that are obvious to adults aren't so clear to children so it might help to spell it out a bit and perhaps see if they want to tell you anything about it all. I don't know how old they are so might not be appropriate. But something to think about. Or if they are too small to understand maybe you can do something special with them so they too feel like they are getting something extra.

I think that all of you probably need to be as kind to yourselves and each other as you can manage. Good luck with school.