Secondary school; what is a "friends group" and how do they work?

[NorahNorah]

There seem to be rigid "social norms" around friends' groups, at school, mainly since Y7. I hear the strangest things, many don't fit with "friends" and some of the rules/behaviours among those in a group are plainly cruel and hurtful, to one another. Please explain.

Do you mean friendships in groups or something more organised? Can you give some examples?

If your child has a 'friend group' that isn't nice she needs to find new friends. A 'friend group' is just teenage speak for 'friends'.

It's just a group (squad / tribe/ gang) they spend time with and have things in common with, like with adults some friend groups are nicer than others.

DD has a lovely friend group, she's autistic and within her group there are children with medical needs, parental bereavement, ADHD, Tourettes and they are all extremely supportive of each other.

@IncognitoUsername I don't know everyone in the group, I think it's at least half a dozen, some know each orther from primary school, some are new to Y7. They hang out together "exclusively" when at school, get pi##ed off if you hang out with anyone else at school or outside of school - and seems they are made to feel they cannot "leave" the group, cannot hang out with anyone else (for fear of what, I do not know) and encouragement given, to move on, is met with a mix of emotions and claims that it's just not possible.
Yes, @Singleandproud and @JaninaDuszejko , agreed, how might we, parents/caregivers make change, whether tactfully/delicately/forthrightly; and, what should/could the child do, for themselves?
I'm of the mind that the latter, is more effective than the former - however, to do nothing and leave it to your child to handle, is definately a double-sided coin toss.

Did you go to secondary school? Its pretty much the same as it was then .
Perhaps some different vernacular.

Why does this read like AI trying to understand human society 😄

You can't really micromanage your child's friendships. They largely need to learn to navigate this themselves, unless there are serious bullying issues about which you would inform the school. These kinds of issues in friendship groups have always existed - I'm not sure why you think this is a new thing!

I know! The title left m so confused.

This is why I ask, @Mindlesspuzzles , because what I'm describing was not how I remember it. If similar dynamics were in play, it was to a much lesser extent.

May be the lady is from abroad. I had the loveliest secondary. No bullying, special exams to enter in, everyone polite. There weren't any such groups as described in the UK. You get to be friends with whom you click on and mainly you have a best friend and few others you see after school or on the weekend and sometimes we had whole class parties but without any alcohol, sex or drugs, as someone mentioned today LOL, 14 years old do this regularly.

I often thought to start a thread asking more about this, but always wondered will people understand what I am trying to understand. I personally find friendships groups and what's app parents groups completely weird combos

Some teenage/pre-teen friends are like this- the whole "you can't hang out with anyone but our group". It comes from a place of deep insecurity, a lot of the time.

I think all you can do is try to equip your daughter with the confidence not to worry about it too much.

Try and ensure she keeps up a hobby outside of school that is social and gives her seperate friends.

Pretend like I'm AI lol @PollyPeep @IncognitoUsername - I connot fathom the degree of distress that I am sensing, and it's totally getting me down, too.

Is your DD in Y7? What will happen is the situation will get worse and worse until the group collapses.

All you can do is remind her to always be reasonable and respectful, that 'recollections may vary' about pretty much every disagreement and that if her friend group isn't nice she should make other friends with girls in her form or in her classes when her 'friends' aren't around. Also, encourage hobbies she does in or out of school so she has other friends, DD2 hates her form group so does a morning activity every day to avoid it as much as possible (our school does lots of pre and post school activities). Be strict about not allowing phones in her bedroom or after a set time each night, friendship issues get very toxic on social media so she might need time away from it. If really bad tell her to stop reading the group chats (better than leaving according to DD1 because people would then bully you for leaving the group chat). She needs to know you have her back and will step in if necessary but give her the space to work things out herself.

How is the pastoral care at the school? Is it big enough that she could be moved away from her 'friends' (it doesn't sound serious enough for this yet but good to have in your back pocket)? Also, if she tells you about things she's not happy about it's always worth saying 'do you want me to talk to your form tutor about this?'. It makes her feel listened to and taken seriously, it reminds her there are options, but it also makes her think about if she's just having a bit of a moan but she can cope or if it is actually more serious and she needs adult intervention. I overruled one of my DC in one case because the bullying was around a protected characteristic so I spoke to school, asked for them to do a specific thing (which I knew they could do) and it was dealt with.

Expand her friend group, clubs ,hobbies etc. Invite the nice kids over and encourage friendships that way.
Keep talking to her about what good friends are, how big the world really is and that in the grand scheme of things these years are a short part of her life. They are not the be all,end all. What's the worst that can happen?

I'm familiar with a group like this and it's all sad really. Secondary seemed scary and uncertain so they stuck to the same friendship from primary, with a very clear hierarchy. It's put up and shut up, otherwise it's social "suicide". It's mostly driven by fear and insecurity, because the girls know that individually are fucked , as they haven't really made any friends or connections and they resent each other for it while at the same time fighting to be too dog/the irreplaceable one. One of the girls was telling me how awful x,y and z are and the awful things that they're doing , but she won't say anything because she wants to be popular. It doesn't cross her mind that in a highschool of 2000 ,being in the same group of 6(now 8,they added two similar girls) isn't popularity. Collectively, they're reenacting Mean girls to the nth degree. Individually(most of them), they are scared, miserable and ironically, lonely.

Some groups can be almost gang/cult like

You need to expand her socialising outside of school at extra curriculars but physically close enough that there might be some cross over and she may move friend groups to those from the activity

Encourage friendships with other children offering pizza nights or to act as a taxi for X, Y and Z.

If there is real distress then you talk to the pastoral team, band, form and class changes are possible to widen her social circle during class time if she is actually at risk of bullying behaviours if she tries to leave the group. You should also keep a tight look at her phone activity incase issues come through that. With phones children can't escape toxic behaviour as it can come through that so make sure you are the 'bad cop' and maintain breaks from it, charging in the kitchen at night etc

It is quite normal at this point in yr 7 for students to cling to those who they went to Primary with, this start to change as they head into year 8.

@PaperDoIIs @JaninaDuszejko @Singleandproud , thank you,
I agree with so much of this, and activities beyond school, as you say, where there may be a healthier mix of kids they know and some they don't.
But every little bit of doing that, meeting new people, spending the time away from the friends in the group .. all of it contravenes the insular rules, the self-serving ego stroking and above all, the actions that come out of the insecurity that demean, are hurtful and deliberately so.

Thing is, even the kids that are being mean, don't entirely bear all the responsibilty for it, as in, we're all a product of our upbringing. To this, there are many, many factors, and as children, much of that has been put upon them, and they've had no choice, but to live with it - and that contiinues. They all need things that they don't have, weren't given and don't know how to get for themselves. It's as though they haven't got the tools, nor the knowledge and abilities to make them.

That said, what are the very first steps of styepping away, the very first actions towards putting some distance between them and the group?

I don't think this kind of exclusivity is normal, OP. Your dd needs to somehow extricate herself from this group and find better friends. The first step is to start socialising with others outside the group. It may meet with disapproval but the goal is to find a healthier group of friends in any case.

Can your dd start to message kids that she likes in other groups to start building relationships beyond the group? She just needs to have the confidence that she won't end up alone when she finds the courage to break away from this toxic group.

Of course, she might find that others will break away first.

The very first step comes from you.
You talking to her about healthy relationships.
You talking to her about activities outside of school and making it an obligation for her to try a new group or groups for six months to see what she likes even when she doesn't want to as it's for th greater good
You talking to school and alerting them of the unhealthy dynamics of the group. So they can keep a eye out and break up if necessary.

Young teenagers do not necessarily have those social skills, they require you to actively parent if in a toxic friendship and then to model, guide and counsel them into identifying and making positive relationships loving forward.

Children who do not have active parents, or grow up in households with unhealthy dynamics may never get out of those unhealthy friendships and are likely,in turn to develop unhealthy and likely abusive adult relationships in the future