13 year old hating school

[Sobbingteen]

I have no idea if I'm handling this right.

My daughter's never been the biggest fan of school but it's got steadily worse over the last year or 2. She's now in year 9. She's doing well academically and has a small group of good friends.

She will cry in the morning and beg us to let her stay home quite regularly. It's awful. There was some bullying going on but we've spoken to the school and so has she and it seems to have calmed down now. She tells us she doesn't want us to speak to the school again. We recently had parents evening though and nobody had any concerns.

I've tried talking to her and said I'd be willing to look at other schools with her but she isn't very specific about what the issue is, just that it's 'everything' and a different school would be worse with no friends.

I feel like the worst mum forcing her in every morning but also feel like the worst mum on the r occasions I have let her stay home (usually when she says she's ill but I'm not 100%) convinced she is.

Her attendance is now at roughly 93% and I don't want it to fall further. But I'm so worried this is going to lead to complete school refusal or mental health issues.

How should I be handling this? I should add we took her to the GP lately for blood tests as she is often tired but these were clear.

Feel for both of you, have been down this road - still going down it, DS is upstairs and avoiding school. Have a look at the Facebook Page 'Not Fine In School (NFIS)' over 50,000 parents and carers on there with children of all ages who can't (not won't) go to school. In my son's case, he was assessed by CAMHS, it was felt he didn't have SEN (jurys out on that) but he definitely has social anxiety and like your DD would say 'everything' when I asked him what the issue was. GP diagnosed anxiety when he wasn't sleeping at night and felt shaky, once I had that diagnosis from GP, school backed off after previously sending letters about fines.
The whole attendance thing is ridiculous- after all they have been through with lockdowns and Covid, the schools should be concentrating on kids' mental health - not bloody attendance!

This is the page;

This is the page:

Has the bullying “calmed down” or stopped? Honestly I don’t understand why we think there’s something wrong with kids who refuse to go to school when they’re being bullied. Would you want to go somewhere you felt unsafe and anxious, constantly at risk, where you were being verbally abused and hit? No, you wouldn’t. But we just expect kids to suck it up.

If your child is crying and asking you for help, you need to listen. The worst thing you can do as a parent is refuse to help your child. You’re teaching them a learned helplessness - there’s no escape, they just have to put up with being treated badly - and that mindset will cause problems for the rest of their lives. I was bullied at school, and like your DD I learned there was no escape and I just had to put up with it - so when I was older and I was the victim of domestic violence, I just put up with it because I’d been taught that there was no escape and I just had to put up with being treated badly.

She doesn’t want you to speak to the school again because it’s not resolving the situation, it’s just making it worse. The teachers may have no concerns but they’re hardly paying attention, they see her a few hours a week and they don’t see what happens at break time or on the way home. At this point I’d be looking at other schools even if she says she doesn’t want to. She’s a child, it’s not for her to make the decision - you need to take charge and handle it for her. Even home education would be a better option than crying and being afraid all the time. I’ve been there and it’s truly terrible.

Thanks Jackie022 and I'm sorry you're going through this too. I'll take a look at that group. I'm certain there is no sen in my daughter's case. I have some time off with her over half term so I can hopefully catch her in the mood to talk and we can try and really get to the bottom of all the issues she's having at school. We aren't at outright refusal yet but I feel like we're getting to that stage. School aren't actually bothered by her attendance, she's doing well academically and I think they have lots of other kids with bigger issues. But I fear if we don't tackle it now she'll become one of those kids herself!

Serrates what a horrible thing to accuse someone of - ignoring their child being bullied. It's absolutely not the case. I was bullied throughout high school myself so I am well aware of how miserable that is. The bullys are no longer approaching her but are just giving her dirty looks. That's what I meant by it calming down. The school acted swiftly - as did I. I realise spending time with people who clearly dislike you can't be nice at all, even if they're no longer actively bothering you. I'm not sure we can realistically expect the school to stop dirty looks though.

She really likes her head of year and her friends are very supportive. The school have acted quickly when told about the bullying. I'm not convinced dropping her into a new school with no friends - against her will - is going to help.

I will continue to listen to my child and try to help her. Luckily my bullying experience helped me develop empathy..I can see it didn't do that for some.

Does she have undiagnosed ND? This is usually the cause of school refusal.

25 years a teacher and school refusing Dd. Who was later diagnosed Audhd.

Serrates what a horrible thing to accuse someone of - ignoring their child being bullied. It's absolutely not the case.
You said she’s crying and asking you not to make her go to school, but you’re still making her go. What else would you call it other than ignoring a cry for help? Dirty looks and a constant atmosphere of threat are just as damaging as actually being attacked. If you can’t make it stop then you need to remove her.

I would honestly be really surprised. I've not seen anything that would suggest this at all in terms of how she is socially and academically. When I've looked at this in the past with my son (who does have some traits) she wouldn't tick any of the boxes.

I do worry about her mental health though. I wonder if she's actually struggling with anxiety and sort of 'masking' that? Her school year is particularly badly behaved and there is a lot of disruption in the classes. I'm really hoping that will calm down in a couple of months - they effectively start year 10 early once they've chosen their options and all the classes get mixed up.

Girls mask. When they can’t mask anymore they start to refuse to go to school. Often the first diagnosed symptom for ND girls is anxiety.

Its interesting to say your son has traits as it’s often genetic.

My dd was sociable, chatty, happy and friendly. Academically very able. 9 high grade GCSE’s Started to struggle a bit in y10 not wanting to go in. Diagnosed at 16. Refused to go to school. Now has an EHCP

Look at this checklist. This is an internal presentation,

https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/keeping-it-all-inside.pdf

How should I be handling this? I should add we took her to the GP lately for blood tests as she is often tired but these were clear

Oh! Missed this bit. ASD burnout causes severe fatigue. I’m even more convinced now. The age, symptoms and timing all go together.

Thank you, that list is really useful but she doesn't tick more than 1 or 2 things on it and those things probably don't say much in isolation i.e. she loves animals. I've saved a copy of it though.

Hi op . I have one child who is severe school refuser and is Nd and one who just really anti school but is coping and is not neurodiverse. So i feel I see this from all angles

I think modern life is tough for kid. School is relentless then outside school children bave far less freedom and time playing freely outdoors than they did even a generation ago

There is no off switch because social nedia is always on.

I think you could sit her down calmly and explain that if she genuinely wants things to change she needs to look at other schools with you.

Thanks. I'm going to do my best to encourage her to open up a bit more over half term and see if we can work out some ways to tackle this.

Both mine hated (different) schools from y9. I blame the education system that encourages huge secondaries, but theres obviously not a simple answer.

one is now at oxford having moved at sixth form to an independent, the other is about to take (fail) a levels and can’t wait to leave and get a job, so both ends of the academic spectrum.

fwiw, my approach was haphazard - I tried to get them in as much as possible but caved in occasionally when I thought they really needed a break. Every day was tough, for 3 yrs between y9,10 and 11.

my only perspective is that whilst I sympathised, they needed an education I couldn’t give them personally at the time - but if I did it again I’d seriously look at the home school system. There’s huge support around now. The level of aggression throughout all schools I’ve had dealings with is hideous, and if we had to walk into workplaces like those, we’d be off sick!

💐 to you. But it will pass.

Whilst I’m in no way saying your daughter is ND I just want to add that girls present very differently in the case of ASD and similar. Academically and socially they can seem like they’re totally on the ball with everything. Girls are also very adept at masking which makes things really tricky.

it does sound like your daughter is battling some sort of anxiety though. Sometimes it can be really hard for kids to express feelings like that, particularly if they’re not prone sharing feelings. Have you involved the school at all to see what support they can put in place?

Thank you! That's my approach too. And I agree, the school system is descending into chaos. The behaviour is awful despite the teachers best efforts. I honestly don't know how we'd manage homeschooling as we both need to work and it was a struggle to get her to do any kind of learning through COVID. She said to me today she just wants to drop out - she doesn't want to do any kind of learning or education. Like you, I'm sympathetic but stress that she needs some kind of education to live a fulfilling life as an adult.

I also believe there's anxiety there for sure. I have honestly read carefully through the link from the previous poster. I don't recognise anything in it.

I've only spoken to the school about the bullying specifically so far but I am going to speak to them about the wider issues after half term.

I think this sounds neurodiversity too. Would be worth getting her assessed.

It’s so hard knowing what to do, you just want to make everything better with the wave of a wand. Have a chat with the pastoral team if your school has one. We worked with them for my daughter but in the end we decided to home educate. Anxiety is a really difficult thing to try and solve as often a child doesn’t recognise that’s what they’re struggling with.

hopefully your daughter will start opening up to you more. It may be the case that she doesn’t quite know herself what everything is stemming from. She may need to explore things as much as you do. Sending you both hugs as I know how hard it is.

Thanks sillybert. She does open up at times, if you catch her in the right mood. We've got some nice things planned next week so fingers crossed. I also agree that I don't think she knows herself where some of these big feelings are coming from.

In terms of an assessment for neuro diversity, I honestly don't know what I'd even use as a basis for asking for an assessment - the fact that she hates school and loves animals? I'm not being flippant but I know so many parents whose kids are so clearly Nd and have such obvious needs who have had to fight for years for an assessment or any extra help, I can't see us getting anywhere. What I do think is that mental health issues share some symptoms with neuro diversity - for example the tiredness, not being able to.cope with school - so I think that's more likely what's going on.

The basis is that she's finding school such a distressing environment that she's literally crying about having to go there every day.

I would consider some therapy for your daughter.. she may need to process the bullying and rebuild confidence. Perhaps she is anxious that what happened before will happen again.. some work around staying present and focused on today might help.. also celebrating small wins, one thing she enjoyed about her day etc . Good luck OP, I feel for you, my DS is year 9 and doing well for now but he went through similar a few years ago x

That is literally it though. There are no other signs. I've joined the not fine in school Facebook group and looked at the ebsa thread on here and I can see for the vast majority school refusal goes hand in hand with sen. But I'm reading about all these poor kids who are struggling so much with obvious sen but I can't relate to anything other than the school refusal itself.

She was like a different child last night as it's half term now for us. She was happy, relaxed, chatty. We spent some lovely time together. I know the next week is going to be great but we'll be back to square one when half term is over.

I think therapy might be a good idea, I'll see if I can broach that with her.

You won't be seeing the signs at home because she's in her safe space. An assessment would be able to clarify whether the issue is really SEN or not.

One thing you mentioned in your OP that stood out to me was that she's "never been the biggest fan of school".

That strikes me of indicative of SEN as this would be something that's deep rooted and always been an issue for her but she's probably been able to cope in the past by masking.

As they get older though, the pressure to do this really starts to take its toll. It starts to get increasingly difficult to keep it up and the social pressures really ramp up. It sounds like it's all really intensifying now for your DD.

Ok, well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't believe that the one and only reason for disliking school is Sen. I'm sure it's the main one for a lot of kids so I can understand why it's been suggested but the more I look at that and read about it the more convinced I am she has no sen. I will continue to do my best to sort this for her but I don't think seeking an assessment for Sen is going to help.