Parenting my 13yr old DD is a thankless task these days

[DataColour]

I'm really struggling with my DD. She is 13 and in year 9, august born.
She is vile at the moment, we don't understand why. It's in the last 3/4 months, she has changed so much. Nothing bad has happened to her as far as we know.
She calls me names, hits me sometimes, does the very bare minimum homework. Her school books are very untidy and messy with empty pages - I don't know how she gets away with it at school, but she is never had a detention for it and this is a school that gives out a lot of detentions.
Her room is extremely messy.
Her messiness has been an issue for years but her rudeness is recent.
Every morning is a battle with her as she is extremely stubborn and has aversions to certain things with no logical reason. This morning she insisted she cycle to school as usual even though the snow was a few inches deep, we are less than 30min walk from school. In the end after arguaing for ages we had to threaten to lock her bike up and take the key to prevent her from cycling. She has no issue with general walking and is actually a very sporty child, but she just digs her heels in at every opportunity with no good reason. This is just an example but indicative of ridiculous things she won't budge on.
She is a very fussy eater too, refuses to eat certain food even though she's never tried them ever - just refuses to even try.
She is grumpy and rude all day, to us and to even close family.

I just can't take it anymore. DH is too soft with her and won't discipline her properly. I have DS too who's 15, he tried to engage with her and play with her, but a lot of the time she is rude to him and refuses to, although sometimes if she is in a good mood she will.

I'm worried about her general demeanour, her school work, her attitude to us, and it's getting me down.

Is this just normal teen girl behaviour is this something more we need to look into?
Thanks for reading.

You have to pick your battles or else it’s just going to turn into constant tension and make things worse. Food for example is something I’d never get into an argument with a 13 year old about. If she doesn’t want to eat something then that’s fine. She’s old enough to make herself an alternative

Teenagers like toddlers want to make their own decisions.

If you try to make them do stuff or stop them doing stuff they get just as stroppy as toddlers only with better words and more hurtful,

You need to pick your battles.

I'd have let her cycle she wouldn't have got far before she fell off and then she would have learnt.

Natural consequences go a long way at this age.

Try and remember your own life and emotions at that point. I remember feeling like my face looked like an alien (puberty is so weird), friendships were the most exciting and devastating things ever, you want to shout and scream and jump out of your skin half the time. Are you aware of what she’s up to on social media?

This sounds pretty normal to me. I agree with pp, try and find things to say yes to. So she falls off her bike in the snow - she won’t try it again and lesson learnt.

Try and make sure you spend time together in a positive way. What do you have in common? Are you still curious about her and her life and trying to talk to her about her life in calm moments eg driving somewhere, doing things side by side rather than face to face?

Hitting you has to come with serious consequnces though.

@pjani I have always spend lots of quality time with her, taking her out to places just the two of us. She used to be good company. I'm always asking about her life, friends, school, hobbies. we go out of our way to take her to her activities. We go for walks every weekend, and she used to be good company now she is sulky.

@Octavia64 yes, recently I have been relatively hands off with school work. Because of her lack of organisation and hate of writing, very messy writing, she found it hard and her recent exams have reflected that which is frustrating. She lacks confidence so a bad result can have a prolonged knock on effect which is what I'm worried about with regards to school work and also general life.

@MaloneMeadow yes, last night I ignored her food comments. she refused to come down unless I told her what's for dinner and I didn't. She ate later. She is focused on certain food and a lot of the time I think she is hungry which contributes to her bad behaviour. She is under weight and only wants to eat certain food. She is very stubborn and would rather go hungry than eat food that is not 100% to her liking.

Why would you refuse to tell her what’s for dinner? To me that’s being needlessly difficult with her. If you want to decrease tension then it works both ways

I have a 16yo. His room is always a mess, he calls me names if I chase him over homework. On occasion, he will argue black is white. I just let it all wash over me. Keep up the encouragement but don't rise.

Don't make food into a battle ground. I cook a meal every night and I make sure there's plenty of bread, cheese and tomatoes in the fridge. Plenty of toast and jam. Then he has the choice No-one will starve.

Let your dd cycle in the snow. She'll only try it once, but she's at an age she needs to discover this stuff for herself.

It's time to loosen the ties and let her make some mistakes of her own.

First rule out any physical problems. Messy handwriting can be caused by dyspraxia and or hyper mobility, you can rectify this by building up finger muscles and using a more ergonomic pen. Executive functioning disorder can be the source of untidiness

Second rule out any neurological or mental health problems, fussy eating and resistance to rules and change (walking not biking) can be linked with autism, ARFID for food.

Thirdly, some times teens are just that way but they need rock solid boundaries to feel safe even if they are constantly pushing them.

She may have a condition she may not but there are things that can be put in place whether she does or doesn't to mean you all rub along better. Yr 9 is well known as being a hellish year so perhaps she'll just come out the other side.

Firstly, don't sweat the small stuff. She wanted to cycle to school so you should have let her decide for herself. Maybe say something like "Okay, whatever you want, but it might be a bit tricky in the snow. Up to you though".

She is pushing hard against boundaries, so move them! Give her as much freedom and leeway as you possibly can, and tell her that's what you are doing, because now she's growing up you are happy for her to have more responsibility and choices. She can't push at boundaries if they aren't there.

And if you know she's underweight and fussy about what she eats, for goodness sake make some allowances for her at mealtimes and provide at least something she will be happy to eat at every meal. I'd also start wondering whether she was under some sort of pressure from peers/friends/frenemies at school about something, possibly her appearance or weight. She's unlikely to want to tell you though, so don't push your luck or she will clam up even more. Just let her know that if there's anything bothering her, then she can always come to you, and you will listen, and help if she wants you to.

She sounds exactly like my ADHD son.

Why are you wanting to discipline her for not eating foods she doesn't like?

Does your partner plonk a food you don't like in front of you and tell you you'll get used to it if you try it?

People with sensitive taste buds and anxiety about food always ask what's for dinner.

For them, having a meal foisted on you with no choice is a daily torture they have to endure. Doubly so if you have a mother who will berate you at every mealtime because you won't try this that and fucking other.

Messy room part and parcel of teenagers.

ADHD things like not having the right book in the right class, forgetting PE fear, chronic procrastination, super focus then super foggy zoning out. Talking 'at' you rather than to you. Barrelling into the kitchen to tell you their 'idea'. Absolutely not having a shower when told to, leaving everything to the very very very last minute.

People's issues only emerge in teenage years when life (and parents) start upping the demands on them.

Edited for typos

Honestly there are a lot of adhd pointers in your op, I say this as someone diagnosed with adhd, that sounds exactly like me at that age.

Where is she getting to make choices for herself in her life? (Within reason obvs).

Lots of battles here… does she want to go on walks? What does she want to eat? Can you involve her in the cooking at all? Not in a ‘cook for yourself way’ but I’d love to know how you like it, can you show me by doing it while I help you?
what would she choose to do for a day? What would she choose to eat? Can you give her the reins a bit and let her drive a few more decisions.. even for a day to see what she wants?
It could all be hormonal and ‘everything is rubbish’ in her eyes.. but incase it’s something else this might help her feel a bit more grown up?

she refused to come down unless I told her what's for dinner and I didn't.

You are choosing completely the wrong hills to die on. You're on a hiding to nowhere making a massive deal out of tiny pointless things.

How about prompting an ‘everything IS rubbish!’ Conversation… where you and her join forces to list out things you don’t like! yours need to be general and not about her obvs. Write them out on paper, -‘getting up early’, ‘eating food I don’t like’ agree with her, say yeh I hate that too! ‘Cold weather’ then see if she adds any.

Perhaps something about school might come up, or something someone said… She needs to feel you understand her and that you get frustrated too. if you have time, you could then look at helping each one. Have an extra long lie in on Sundays and not doing a walk or having two weeks without broccoli or something.

I did this with my teen when she hated going in the shower and would kick off massively.. such a drama every.single.time.
since we wrote it out jointly, turns out her only issue was boredom in the shower, so we agreed she could play songs in there, or even a bit of a film on her phone, particularly one she could never watch on tv as her younger sister was too young (away from the water obvs). Really helped.

I think we all like to feel understood.
not sure if this will help but just wanted to share my strategy.

Every parent is different, but for me personally I have never accepted my children treating me (or anyone else) with disrespect. Everything else you have mentioned can be down to hormones and general teenager behavior (Although I won't make issues around food as that can encourage disordered eating).

However, I always told my children from a young age (usually around 4 with girls was when it first cropped up) that being disrespectful and rude isn't acceptable. I am an easy going, warm mum but I don't take nonsense. I would explain the behavior I expected in terms of respect and politeness. If they ignored it I would ignore them and their requests.

My kids are 23, 20 and 17 and are all very respectful of others and enjoyable to be around.

I just won't let my kids treat me in ways I would never accept from anyone else.

Some fab suggestions here already, but I have to add Win Lose Kill Die by Cynthia Murphy. Our Y7-9s LOVE this one, and has the best opening chapter!

Whoops! Wrong thread!

With all due respect I taught my child to respect herself and those around her . To be kind etc etc and my daughter started at 13 to behave exactly like the Ops child. It started suddenly, almost overnight from being a relatively easy going happy ultra polite child.
i feel people still think on these chats that parents who have problems like this have just not been parents that have parented their child and it is simply not true
some teens push push and push against rules and parents , and others are more easy going. Or have as yet undiagnosed disorders. In our case it has been diagnosed in late teens as ADHD.

This is pretty similar to mine currently too. Same age. She can be absolutely fucking vile. She was such a studious kid and now all she gives a shit about is her hair and Tik tok. Her school work is going downhill and she literally doesn’t care. My friend said it gets worse before it gets better!

@Singleandproud has given some good advice. I wondered whether she has some neurodiversity - it is very common for girls to mask and begin to fall apart in secondary.

@wishmyhousetidy that's fair enough, but the exceptions prove the rule. Teens will push, and its up to us to make sure they know there are still boundaries to their behaviour. If all teens were unable to control themselves, every house, school and workplace with a teen would be bedlam.

If your teen doesn't disrespect teachers and can control themselves when it benefits them in some way, then clearly they do have self-control when motivated enough. So you are teaching them to disrespect you.

A big part of the transition to adulthood is self-control and self-discipline.

Yes, I have wondered this too in the last couple of years or so. She does show traits of autism now. She masked it in primary I think. Doesn't make friends easily at all and does not like group things at all. She likes solo pursuits, that's why her favourite thing to do is climbing, she doesn't have to do it in a group.

Yes, phone use is making her worse I feel. I do take away her phone when I get home and take it away also if I think she's using it too much in general. She used to take more pride in her school work, all her books are stuffed full of loose `bits of paper, I feel like it's getting out of control. She is bright and got one of the highest marks in her 11+ in her school and passed for all the grammars in the area. But in the last couple of years she has lost interest in doing any school bar the bare minimum.

I would remove the phone @DataColour. I will probably get a lot of hate for this but my kids didn't have phones until later and all have good mental health in comparison to many of their peers (especially girls). Phones are so addictive for many kids they just destroy motivation and interest in other things.

It’s all very well to say let a 13 yr old cycle in the snow but if she’s cycling on the road that leaves drivers trying to swerve to avoid her if she skids.

OP I sympathise, dd is nearly 12 and it’s already joyless at times. I agree pick your battles and let her find out the consequences. Ignore the sulking if you can, don’t let it bring the whole family down.

Sensory issues, inflexibility, need to stick to routines, black and white thinking, difficulties with friendships, ok at school (masking) but meltdowns at home.... all point to ASD. Has she got any intense special interests? Puberty can be very hard when neurodiverse. Id consider low demand parenting, lots of prep around routine changes, in fact any transitions (like leaving the house), let her find her interests and run with that, stims like fidget tools can help regulate, see if any of that helps.