How on earth do I motivate DS to revise for GCSEs ...

[JunoSparks]

Hoping that a few of you on here have some experience of this and have some suggestions! My DS is desperately unmotivated and in fact very hostile towards revision and schoolwork - he seems happy enough at school but when it comes to homework, and revision in particular (he is supposed to be revising for mocks in early November) it is like getting blood out of a stone to get him to sit down and do anything.

We have endless circular conversations along the lines of 'why do I have to do English? Why do I have to study poetry? I'm never going to read another poem again' etc etc (then apply this to multiple other subjects - he really only likes computer science). I am realising that trying to reason with him/explain (transferrable skills etc, learning how to analyse, form an argument, etc) is totally pointless, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

I feel I need to adopt a different tack as I can't bear how I'm turning into such a nagging parent always on at him to work. He needs to take responsibility for it himself, create his own revision timetable etc, I think, but I'm just terrified he'll just balls it all up. Perhaps he needs to really fail his mocks to then realise he's got to pull his socks up.

But it's SO hard when it's such a constant battle with someone who thinks it's all pointless and seems to hate most subjects so much :(

Any advice or experiences shared would be so welcome! Thank you ...

Perhaps take a different approach and ask him what he wants to do after year 11, go to college, start an apprenticeship, a job?
In most cases he's going to need some qualifications so rather than him asking why do I have to do poetry, turn it round to what he needs to do to get to the next stage?

What does he want to do after GCSEs? Make it clear that they are a means to an end. We had the same discussions about poetry, but in the end you need to pass in order to get into 6th form and uni (ds’ goal), so you just have to get on with it.
For a lot of students failing in the mocks and realising which future doors will now close is a good wake up call.
A lot of them, particularly boys, will pull their socks up at the last minute.
Don’t lose hope just yet!

I agree. He may think certain topics are irrelevant, but that is the system he is in.
What does he need for next steps? That needs to be the focus. Plus then perhaps a reward system for some other subjects if you think he is capable.

I think address the fact that yes there is no need for him to do poetry, that there might not be transferable skills but that is what the government decided as a way to test the skills of the teenagers.

Also that he is competing against some children whose parents have dropped £30k+ a year to get their children the best education. Does he understand the bell curve and that he will be measured against everyone else sitting the same exam paper and that some children will be forced to fail and get grade 3 or below?

Explain it is a game, and as a game you have to know how to score the most points. As a parent go through past papers for both English Lang and Lit with him, they are all online, look at each question and the mark scheme. Understand what gets points. The more points, the higher the grade. If he fails either English lang or maths he will be doing them for another year so sort it out now. It is easy when you know level 6 is the highest level and that there are Assessment Objectives and they have to use something from the text to hit each AO, ie AO2 is language so he has to pick a work out and explain it. He has been taught all of this in school. For example in A Christmas Carol Scrooge says (badly remembered quote) he doesn't have time to make poor people "merry" merry has 2 meanings, drunk, or happy, is he saying poor people mis-sepnd their money on drink? Does he think poor people should be miserable? Also that everything he is reading for Lit is fiction, words deliberatly chosen, characters created.

Where does he want to go after year 11? If he is thinking university in the long run then he needs decent grades and some unis want a 6 in maths if they want to do computer scicence. Look ahead with him now at sixth forms and university entry grades for courses he may be interested in.

For CS is he wanting to do A levels? So maths will be a must - he'll need a 7 in that probably, plus his English Lang plus a few more at grade 5/6(?) dependent on entry criteria for chosen 6th form.

Or for a T-Level / Extended Diploma BTEC he will need what?

What will happen if he doesn't get that? He'll be on a Level 2 course with people less bright than him, doing a 3rd year in college, getting frustrated at the pace.

Thanks so much all for thoughts.
We're very much thinking ahead and applying for sixth forms - A levels and possibly an extended BTC - which I thought would help motivate him as he knows he has to get certain grades to get in. But it doesn't seem to be making a difference. I think you're right though @TeenDivided and @JosaihMyTable that I need to shift the focus of what I'm saying and talk about how it is a game essentially, it's the system. Rather than trying to explain why certain subjects are useful. Gah, it's so hard!

Yes I've got one like that. He doesn't want to stay on at his school and do A-levels so are looking at possibly a level 3 btech or even carpentry courses etc. We've looked at the entry requirements and also started to visit colleges. It's made it a bit more real and he knows exactly what he needs. At his school they do a couple early so he already had 2 subjects done and under his belt which has taken the pressure off somewhat, to give him his due he did work pretty hard for these, slightly at the detriment of other subjects (they had large coursework elements eg DT).
He knows English and maths are the focus and we are lucky enough to be able to pay for tutors for these. He needs these and one or two others and being a teenager who doesn't like school (well the academics not the social element!) is aiming for basically this.

Something else which seems to have helped is that at his school they have 6th form mentors for some kids. My DS has one and he listens to him... I have to nod along and bite my lip when he tells me all these revelations surrounding school work which his mentor has told him - the exact same things I say which have gone ignored!! Apparently they are going to put together a revision timetable together. Does your school have anything like this? Or if not do you have any friends with sixth formers who you could somehow engineer talking to him?

Get him to think ahead to his life in his 20s and beyond. Does he want a car, holidays, flat, enjoyable job? Then work backwards to now. Help him manage his time into a weekly revision plan. Sometimes , procrastination occurs because it all seems too mammoth. Bribe him if needed.

Bribery

This is it in a nutshell.
He has to work within the system. No one but him really cares that much about whether or not he can analyse that poem, but if he wants to study at a higher level he has to achieve certain grades.
He won't get those grades if he doesn't study.
His school will be telling him this too. Mocks are often the wake up call that unmotivated students need.
I'd have one last conversation and tell him that if he's not going to revise, that's on him. But I would offer a carrot or two.
What does he like? Money/food/gaming? Pick a winnable battle. 4 hours revision over the weekend and you take him out for a burger or similar or extra pocket money. I wouldn't be averse to bribery if you can afford it!
Maybe a cash reward for getting a certain grade in English? Get a 6 or above in your mocks, etc.

It's so hard isn't it? I have 4 children and my son (who is now 20) was the same. He never did any revision and scraped through high school.
However, he got an apprenticeship and is really flying now!

Is he doing well actually at school? Engaging? Doing homework?

Ok here’s how I’m playing it - but I accept all kids are different.
I sympathise with ds and absolutely acknowledge to him how irrelevant a lot of what they are studying feels. I even tell him my honest opinion that GCSEs are archaic and I think it’s time for education in the UK to move forward.
BUT I stress to him that he has to accept he’s got to get those grades to achieve what he wants for himself in life. He’s pondering a business degree, possibly through an apprenticeship. I tell him to focus on the end game, and do his best to get there.
I do believe verbalising your empathy is important, they need to feel heard. Also help him with his revision timetable, ds and I drew it up together this morning.

He’s right. He never has to read another poem, analyse alliteration or quote Shakespeare again after he finishes these exams. That’s something for him to celebrate not whine about. This is solely about getting the best grades he can.

What if you tell him that the only way he is never going to read another poem again is to pass GCSE English? Otherwise, he will be resitting! I've done the same with my DS with his maths. He didn't do well in his year 10 mocks, though, so he is motivated by wanting to pass GCSE and go to sixth form with his friends, most of whom did better.

I used the tricks mentioned here too.

My kids don't like English and didn't want to retake so studied "enough"

They had future goals so didn't need convincing to study for subjects that they were doing at A-level

Sometimes kids need a poor mock mark to see how they are performing on a national level and be motivated to do better. So in their head they might be a 6 but if they get a 4 they might study better.

Some kids (like my dc3) have the personality where they aim for 5s and 6s and think that's fine as it allows them to do what's next and is a comfortable pass. They don't think of trying to get to a 7 because they don't care enough to push themselves harder. He admits that there's nothing that anyone could have said or done to change him into someone who would push themselves to get higher grades.

@JunoSparks I think this is also a look ahead time and what things actually cost. We did this years ago with DCs so when they were in maybe year 8 ish. Your son obviously knows he cannot live with his parents forever so in the big wide world what could he earn and afford?

The median average salary for all workers in the UK is £27,756 and he mean average salary for all workers in the UK is £33,402. Does he understand that that would include people who have been doing their job for 20 years and built up their skill level so their salary has increased to that? You could look up local jobs to see what they pay.

Tell him to take a salary of £25k and put that through a salary calculator (loads online) get him to see how much tax and NI is taken and what he is left with. Obviously there will be a pension on top of that. Then get him to put that £25k salary into a mortgage lending calculator to see what a mortgage company would lend him. Then go onto Rightmove put in your postcode, that top mortgage plus a 5% deposit and look at what he could afford. Then ask him what bills he thinks he would need to be paying every month? Utilities, council tax, insurance, broadband, food etc, how much money would he have left?

Ask him how he would afford a new phone, headphones, console, computer, cool trainers, etc whatever his currency is, what would he want in his future? A car? Does he know insurance for a car for a new driver is at least £1k if not more realisitcally £2k? Would he want holidays? Nights out with friends? How will he fund this?

Basically good GCSE grades lead to good A level/BTEC grades, that gives him options. Tell him you don't want him to be forced to take a job because that is all he is qualified for, rather that he has choices, the more doors open, the more choice he has. Tell him you want the absolute best for him, not to struggle financially. There is a whole money board on MN you can show him.

Ds's mate pissed about for year 11, got a 5 in maths so couldn't do it for an A level and had to decide on results day what he was going to do moving forwards. It was a shitty situation to be in but he knew he didn't put the work in. Capable but lazy.

For me, I grew up poor but I used to travel on the train occasionally (paid for by my Saturday job) and it went through some very deprived areas, I knew education was the only way out of my situation. I wish I had had parents who helped me with my education, they obviously did want the best for us but couldn't help us with work. No internet back then with teachers and students on Youtbe provding advice for free on how to succeed in GCSE subjects.

This is all so helpful, thank everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm feeling encouraged. Working out a revision timetable with him currently and he seems a bit less grumpy😐That's a good point @BoohooWoohoo and @Angrycat2768 about letting him know he just needs to get the work in now for those essential subjects so that he doesn't have to retake them ... I do also agree @menopausalmare how mammoth it all seems, so many subjects to revise for and so much content, that breaking it down into manageable chunks is key. We are trying to do that with our revision plan. I think I need to employ some bribery too 😊

We had the same with our DS. A revision timetable makes it seam less daunting for them and also printing out lots of previous exams paper questions. I was concerned that I had spoon fed him so much during the lead up to the GCSE's that he might not cope with A levels but my DS has matured and is now very self motivated and has a / A* predicted grades for his UCAS application. It was a horrible time from my perspective but came through ok and I'm glad we did it this way.

There are lots of different ways to revise and it can take a bit of time to find out what works for the individual. There are some great revision videos and exam paper walk throughs on YouTube. Watching or listening to something might be more his thing? Ds3 was a reluctant reviser but would happily listen to something while walking to school for example.

I hated maths at school and have never had to use it in my professional life. But I had ti resit maths to go on and do a levels

I think you need to face this with more honesty. Gcse system is shit. Its a crap antiquated system that ruins teens enjoyment of education.

Many teens would benefit from dropping some subjects earlier. But he has to play the game

As others have said. If he doesnt pass english he will have to retake it !

My DS was like this. Things came to a head in the Feb of Y11 revising for his mocks. He was predicted AAAABBBCC. His school had identified him (and other boys) as 'bright but lazy' and were doing their best.

I nagged, persuaded, reasoned on repeat, til, one day I just sad 'YOU know what you should be doing, I can't help you if you won't be helped, this is destroying our relationship so I'm going to stop now. I will help if you ask and may well lose my temper with you again'.

And left him to it.

He got AABBBBCCC. He went to a forgiving 6th form to do Maths, Physics, Economics and Geog AS, lying to them that he wanted to do engineering ('Well, it shut them up, didn't it?').

Needless to say this rapidly fell apart, but he had a bit of a shock when at Parents Eve, before Xmas, his teachers basically but fairly told him it was no skin off their nose if he failed. Suddenly there was no Rara squad, no bribery, cajoling, begging. Just 'up to you, son 🤷‍♀️'.

So I told him I wasn't going to finance his failure, 2 low grade A levels weren't worth the paper they were written on, as Maths turned into Use of Maths, and Physics disappeared off his timetable.

Then I discovered the Extended BTEC, via a young guy at work who'd taken the same trajectory. DS expressed interest, given that he knew A levels weren't working for him, and vice versa! And the alternative was a job.

There was one offered in Computing 20 miles away so we pushed him through his driving test, but miraculously, last min, our local tech decided to offer it.

DS finished Y12 with an E grade AS in Geog to show for it 🙄 BUT with a year's maturity and the recognition the world didn't owe him a living, on board.

The BTEC suited him well, constant targets, 13 units, 2 years and a class of 8; 3.5 full days a week. He got the UCAS points equivalent of 2 A stars and an A and went to uni with a scholarship, graduating last summer with a first in software engineering, now in his first year of a £30k pa job.

Maturity and a bit of a rude awakening. And he never has to read another poem....

Thanks for this. It's the sort of thing that is helpful to hear.
Usually the advice is often to keep going with the majority route, but making changes and taking up opportunities that arise are also very important and can be the best option.

But recognising, post 16, educational establishments aren't measured by outcome anything like schools are. Thus, kids can be allowed to more or less flounder, or be aiming towards useless L3 qualifications (like A levels, 'passed' at grade E) especially given that the government are turning sadly, needed, spotlights on pointless degrees.

Does he need to revise? I used to get nagged to, refused to, got very good grades. The way most people revise (and expected me to) just doesn't work for me, post it notes, cue cards, writing things out, highlighting etc. In the subjects where he needs a pass to continue but doesn't need a 9, what's he likely to get if he just does the work set at school. That could be a compromise, do your homework properly, do your coursework and I'll back off about revision.