DS (15) is getting grade 7s in his GCSE mocks with no effort. Says there's no point working any harder to get 9s.

[MonikerBing]

And he says that GCSEs aren't important for anything other than getting into sixth form. So he's not going to work any harder. He did no revision at at for these exams. I know he can get 9s if he worked!

His older sisters who did exams before him did work really hard - they were more motivated by getting top grades - although it's not the grades that really bother me, it's my view that you should try the hardest you can.

Should I be persuading him to aim higher? And if so, how? I told him that as an employer I do look at GCSEs (although I'm not sure I have done). Would GCSE grades count against him for university entry?

Really? Which ones?

My dc had to achieve 5 or 6 in maths and English to get into pretty high rated unis.

Apart from those already mentioned, who look or may look at GCSE achievement, very few uni courses ask for specific grades.

For those that do, it’s more likely to be (for example) a certain GCSE maths grade if applying for, say, CS without maths A level. But that’s very specific.

Could you offer him an incentive to aim higher? Perhaps a monetary reward? I am planning on doing that with mine. Eg. £9 for each grade 9, £8 for each grade 8 etc etc.

@clary we attended our daughter's GCSE information evening yesterday, and this fact was pointed out to the audience by the head of 6th form - along with the message not to coast.

I mean I totally agree re not coasting, but I am not really taking that comment about grades required from a head of sixth form as gospel tbh.

Did they give any examples? I’ve heard of heads of sixth form and head teachers telling students they need GCSE MFL to go to an RG Uni. Also not true as it goes.

GCSE’s can be quite important. A series of unfortunate events prevented me from staying in school. I never did A levels or college. But a few years after my peers I was able to go straight into a degree course with no foundation year, because guess what? Bit of relevant work experience and absolutely stonking GCSE’s! so they accepted me. So they can be very handy if you should find yourself unwell or some other situation preventing normal routes into HE. I think he’s just being lazy and with a bit of hindsight and maturity will regret this.

@clary the only one I can remember was Birmingham uni business management course and something about 70% weighting with certain apprenticeships.

Some universities do specify GCSE grades.

My friend wanted to study psychology and she got a C in GCSE maths and she needed a B for her course so she had to retake her gcse maths alongside a levels.

I did maths at uni and pretty sure I had to have a B in GCSE maths so unis do still want to see good gcse results.

@Ilovegardens i just looked that UoB course up (a random one to mention!) and it requires 5 in maths and 6 in English - totally standard.

For sure unis require 5/6 in maths and English - as I and others here have mentioned. But that’s well within the op’s son’s reach apparently. And in fact that’s a fairly usual requirement for many sixth forms too (well maybe 5 not 6 in English).

No idea why some teachers tell folks such misleading things (see also “put us first on the form or you won’t get a place” and the MFL line).

Anyway @MonikerBing i do think your son should do his best but I agree it’s hard to persuade him. As suggested, maybe point out the usefulness of good GCSEs in maths and physics and whatever else he might do as a good start to those A levels.

@ActDottie a 6 is equivalent to a B tho. I genuinely have never heard of a uni (apart from O and C and then medic/vet) asking for anything more than 6 in maths and English.

Never mind uni - my dds's secondary school say you need at least a 7 in GCSE Maths just to be able to stay at the 6th form to do A Level Maths!

Oh gosh yes. @noblegiraffe would agree there and I would too. Also my subject (MFL!) Yy deffo a 7. Hence suggesting to op she try to get him to focus on A level choices. It’s hard at 15 to get excited about history when you have no plans to study it again and are cruising to a 7 tbh.

Why do you say that? It's simply not true! The only GCSE requirement for university are passes in English and Maths.

If he wants to do engineering at a top university he's going to need good grades for GCSEs and a levels. My ds wants to do engineering and is doing maths, further maths, physics, chemistry a levels and an epq as well as receiving an arkwright scholarship in engineering but still knows he's going to need A* in all of those to get into his desired uni. He got 9s in all of those for GCSEs and an A in further maths gcse, his school would not allow anyone that didn't get a 9 in maths to go on to do further maths a level, so yes, I think gcse grades are important for engineering and many of the good courses are highly competitive.

My son used to say that when he was in
Year 10. Then he discovered a sixth form he really wanted to go to where you basically need all 9s to get in unless you live very locally. So he put in some effort and got 9s.

Now he's applying to university and he is very thankful that he got 9s because foe the course he is applying to do, GCSE grades DO matter. Everyone who applies has 3-4 A*s predicted so they do look at GCSE grades.

Can I make a point here about the theoretical idea of 'potential' - I always wonder what it really means. He is getting the grades he is getting - that would mean to me that given his overall ability to focus/ work hard - these are the grades that fit him - ie. that's what he is capable of right now.

The idea that mythical 'potential ' exists - I dont believe really!

Maybe he isn't as smart as you or he think he is - and he is doing just fine for his level. Being high achieving INCLUDES focus/ hard work - it's not a random separate thing. It's the ability to do that that creates high achievement and intelligence.

Personally I'd back off - let him enjoy being a teenager and go at the pace he is going at - he is doing fine and he can learn the lesson later in life if he wants to put more hours in he might do better.

I would count yourself lucky! I have a child doing barely anything in year 11 and its so stressful....

I have a child in year 10 who just can’t be bothered. Unfortunately he is not predicted 7’s (I wish!) but 4’s and maybe a 5 or two.

To be honest if he gets 4’s and 5’s it’ll be ok as he will have passed them but I do worry if it will be enough for whatever he decides to do.

He’d just rather be playing sport or gaming. He will do his homework and is happy enough at school just finds it all so boring and doesn’t enjoy revision. Although, does anyone?

Mine would rather just game too tbh.

Re potential - I wouldn't mind if he was achieving anything if he was making an effort - I do have other children who haven't achieved academically as well as 7s at GCSE, but I know they tried their best.

Yup - this was me. Easily got 3 x A at A level in the late 80s. Got a shock at uni and more of one at post-grad! Now my DD is a coaster too and won't listen...

"So, you're saying you're lazy, but I think you're covering for the fact you think you just couldn't do any better if you tried. But, up to you."

I would say that it might be worth encouraging your son to have a buffer zone for the day of exams, i.e if he thinks 7s are fine, gets 8s in mocks. My DC got 8s in all their GCSE mocks for a subject they wanted to take for A levels, they got a 5 in the real thing and couldn't take the subject.

He's probably right tbh.

Kids are under a lot of pressure. Back off and he will put himself under it when he needs to.

Though sometimes it just works out, to the annoyance of those that do put the hard graft in. I coasted at ‘O’ level / GCSE (I did 2 O levels early, an additional AO level with the bulk of the O levels and then a GCSE in year one of my A levels) and got straight As. I coasted at A levels, and got a bit of a shock…dropped one of the 4, swapped another and by luck not hard work ended up with an A, a B and a C. Enough to get me into my second choice university, which I was more than happy with. Then promptly coasted through my degree having learned nothing from the school experience and got an upper second.

As a result of ‘winging it’ through education I’ve never really felt the need to work what I’d call hard at work either, or, to be more accurate, it hasn’t felt like hard work because it’s all seemed obvious and straightforward to me. I’m professionally qualified (taking the same approach as I did to the rest of my education, and passing all first time). On the face of it I don’t get stressed. I’m capable, confident and network reasonably well. I’ve had 4 stints working abroad, earned well or very well since my late twenties…and yet…I’m just waiting to be found out and it all come crashing down, even now 😂😂

Imposter syndrome through and through…and yet it’s worked so objectively it’s hard to justify to myself changing the habit of a lifetime… I’ve tried changing many times, actively intending to procrastinate less, plan better, do things earlier but to no avail. I even retired once, a few years ago when my husband died. But, here I am again in a C suite role, paid well and doing what, to me, seems either blindingly obvious or common sense… I sometimes envy those who aren’t particularly capable, but are very confident… it must be wonderful to be oblivious 😆

@HonoriaLucastaDelagardie Not necessarily. Some people are good at sailing through. I've never really revised for exams and have straight As, a first class Oxbridge degree and a successful professional career.

Interestingly in the highly performing culture I work in a lot of the really successful people were the same at school and uni. It means we're good at being put on the spot and coping with a fast paced and demanding environment.

I wish that when I was younger people had recognised it as a strength.